This is how transplants see Cleveland... myself included (Springfield, Euclid: apartment, neighborhood)

[Matthew Hall]

Outsiders' perspectives can be useful, but the attitudes of the dozens of transplants to Cincinnati I've met have been equally divided between positive and negative. Some appreciate the relatively good high culture, diverse economy, and sense of place and civic life that cincinnati has, while others clearly long for an endless parade of distractions to get them through life that Cincinnati doesn't have. No city can be all things to all people, not even NYC. Each city should know its strengths AND weaknesses.

[hipp]

Originally Posted by gobucks86

I agree! It's hilarious how people complain about NE Ohio weather, then go on to say they want to move to cities such as NYC, Chicago, Boston right after complaining about the cold and snow here. Really!?! Now granted, maybe those cities have more to "offer", but when it comes to arguing and complaining about weather specifically, how does that make any sense? Its almost as if people have been brainwashed to think that our winters are so much different than the other northern cities. I don't know, it's weird.

It may not be the winter, but rather the lack of sun. According to NOAA data compiled through 2002 (Cloudiness - Mean Number of Days), Cleveland had fewer clear and partly cloudy days, and more cloudy days, than all three of those cities.

Cleveland: 66 clear, 97 partly cloudy, 202 cloudy
Chicago: 84 clear, 105 p. cloudy, 176 cloudy
Boston: 98 clear, 103 p. cloudy, 164 cloudy
New York: 107 clear, 127 p. cloudy, 132 cloudy

To me it's especially gloomy when there are clouds but no rain, which seems to me to happen more often here than most of the other places I've lived.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Did you ever stop and wonder what NOAA's criteria was for defining a day as "clear?" Because to say the sun doesn't shine often in Cleveland is complete BS. Yes, there may be some extra clouds in the sky, but that doesn't mean that it's gray or overcast. As a matter of fact, that type of "cloudy" generally only occurs in the late fall and through winter. Late spring, summer, and early fall are all more sunny than not. People put waaaaayyyy to much emphasis on this anyway.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Many Cleveland folks are stuck in the '60s-70s crime mode; Cleveland was the murder capitol in the mid-70s. The perception of crime exists which is not the reality. So, it seems this waitress is stuck in past. Also, another thing Clevelanders do is overreact to crime when it does happen.

The funny part about what you have stated (and it is true) is that most major cities were experiencing the exact same issues as Cleveland was at the time. Times Square was essentially a drug infested brothel and much of Manhattan was terribly crime ridden (Chelsea, Tribeca, Greenwich, East Village, etc. were all essentially places to stay out of). It wasn't until the early 90's that things really began to improve there also.

[hipp]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Did you ever stop and wonder what NOAA's criteria was for defining a day as "clear?" Because to say the sun doesn't shine often in Cleveland is complete BS. Yes, there may be some extra clouds in the sky, but that doesn't mean that it's gray or overcast. As a matter of fact, that type of "cloudy" generally only occurs in the late fall and through winter. Late spring, summer, and early fall are all more sunny than not. People put waaaaayyyy to much emphasis on this anyway.

The point of the post I responded to, and of the stats I quoted, wasn't to make an absolute statement about Cleveland's weather, but to say that *compared to three other cities*, Cleveland has fewer days with little to no sun and more days with clouds. That remains the case no matter how the terms are defined.

You can try to downplay it all you want, but it's a matter of personal opinion how much things like sunny days, or weather in general, matters. To some people they matter a lot; to others, not so much. I wish I didn't miss the sun as much as I do, living here. It wasn't something I purposefully decided to find fault with about Cleveland -- it's just what I prefer.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by romeo62186

That's exactly what I mean. I'm not sure about NYC or Boston as I've never looked it up but for Chicago...average annual temps are lower than CLE. Even if not by much the best case you can say is it's the same. So...

Chicago winters can be pretty cold, and the wind chills can be pretty harsh, but the upside is that Chicago gets less snow and more sun during the winter than Cleveland -- so much so that I, having lived for extended periods of time in both cities, notice the difference.

Cleveland gets more snow than probably any other major city -- I think only Buffalo, Syracuse, and Rochester are worse.

[averysgore]

It may not be the winter, but rather the lack of sun. According to NOAA data compiled through 2002 (Cloudiness - Mean Number of Days), Cleveland had fewer clear and partly cloudy days, and more cloudy days, than all three of those cities.

Cleveland: 66 clear, 97 partly cloudy, 202 cloudy
Chicago: 84 clear, 105 p. cloudy, 176 cloudy
Boston: 98 clear, 103 p. cloudy, 164 cloudy
New York: 107 clear, 127 p. cloudy, 132 cloudy

The one true weather-related advantage of Cleveland over these cities is that the sun sets much later. Tonight, for instance, in Cleveland the sun sets at 4:58, and in Boston it's 4:13 (ick). In June I remember the sun being fully in the sky after 9 PM in Cleveland; this never happens in New England.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by averysgore

The one true weather-related advantage of Cleveland over these cities is that the sun sets much later. Tonight, for instance, in Cleveland the sun sets at 4:58, and in Boston it's 4:13 (ick). In June I remember the sun being fully in the sky after 9 PM in Cleveland; this never happens in New England.

The sun sets pretty early in Chicago, too. 4:20 right now.

On overcast days this time of year, dusk in Chicago falls before 4 pm, and the streetlights are already coming on.

I do sometimes miss those Cleveland summer days when it doesn't get completely dark until 10 pm.

[hipp]

Originally Posted by averysgore

The one true weather-related advantage of Cleveland over these cities is that the sun sets much later. Tonight, for instance, in Cleveland the sun sets at 4:58, and in Boston it's 4:13 (ick). In June I remember the sun being fully in the sky after 9 PM in Cleveland; this never happens in New England.

Yes. Sunset in the SF Bay area is similar to Boston's - I remember walking home in complete darkness after meetings ended at 5:00, which was not what I'd grown up with in Texas.

[KMHFoster]

My husband and I are recent transplants to Cleveland from Springfield, MO and I have to say...we LOVE Cleveland!