What Led to Clevelands Downfall? (Twinsburg, Bedford: rent, how much, house)

[LIS123]

I agree with most factors that have been mentioned but would like to highlight the unfriendly business climate. In Cleveland Heights, the taxes and regulations are very burdensome. The RE taxes alone are 3.1%, which is outrageous. The municipal income tax is 2% on top of the other taxes CH residents pay. Cleveland proper is not much better. These are horrible places to do business and I don't fault the business owners for relocating; I would do the same thing. In CH, the 'services' that are purchased through the insane taxes are no better than they are in places with much lower taxes.

[Townes Van Zandt]

Originally Posted by LIS123

I agree with most factors that have been mentioned but would like to highlight the unfriendly business climate. In Cleveland Heights, the taxes and regulations are very burdensome. The RE taxes alone are 3.1%, which is outrageous. The municipal income tax is 2% on top of the other taxes CH residents pay. Cleveland proper is not much better. These are horrible places to do business and I don't fault the business owners for relocating; I would do the same thing. In CH, the 'services' that are purchased through the insane taxes are no better than they are in places with much lower taxes.

Taxes and regulation are definitely an issue.

I don't have much sympathy for mega-corporations, but the extreme amounts of red tape make it harder for small businesses and start ups to stay(or even open in the first place) in the city/state.

I think Cleveland city officials would be amazed at the results if they dropped the huge public works projects and reduced the burden on businesses. Companies would move back to the city and bring their employees with them.

[LIS123]

Originally Posted by ksu sucks

Taxes and regulation are definitely an issue.

I don't have much sympathy for mega-corporations, but the extreme amounts of red tape make it harder for small businesses and start ups to stay(or even open in the first place) in the city/state.

I think Cleveland city officials would be amazed at the results if they dropped the huge public works projects and reduced the burden on businesses. Companies would move back to the city and bring their employees with them.

Unfortunately, neither Cleveland nor Cleveland Heights will ever lower taxes and or regulations in order to accomodate more business activity. If you look at the comments section on some of the newer residential communities (Bluestone, Courtyards of Severance, etc) many people complain that those people are receiving RE tax abatements for 7 Y. I don't think that attitude helps, as those are typically successful people who are contributing with their local taxes, RE taxes, etc

[KittySkyfish]

Originally Posted by LIS123

I agree with most factors that have been mentioned but would like to highlight the unfriendly business climate. In Cleveland Heights, the taxes and regulations are very burdensome. The RE taxes alone are 3.1%, which is outrageous. The municipal income tax is 2% on top of the other taxes CH residents pay. Cleveland proper is not much better. These are horrible places to do business and I don't fault the business owners for relocating; I would do the same thing. In CH, the 'services' that are purchased through the insane taxes are no better than they are in places with much lower taxes.

My husband took a position in Bedford two months ago and we're looking at houses within 30 minutes of his company. Granted, as a new person to the Cleveland area, I can't contribute to why the city is struggling but I can tell you this: Your RE and income taxes are incredibly high. We're from Texas and are shocked at the amount we'll have to pay just to live in comparable neighborhoods. If we go apples to apples and select a neighborhood comparable to what we have here in Texas, we're looking at property taxes 75% higher than what we pay now - for a house that's about 1,000 sqft smaller. And this doesn't include the additional burden of your state income tax. We don't have this in Texas.

I'd rather live north of Bedford but financially, it's more affordable to purchase in Summit county.

BTW: I really like the area! I'm "Yay Cleveland!", not "ugh...cleveland." It's the taxes that are !

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Mr216

I know manufacturing played a big part in it but what were the other components such as was it leadership, crime etc.? or something else and when do you think this downfall began?

Cleveland suffered from the ailments that just about every other city suffered from the 1950's on. The focus changed from urban to suburban. People believed that they could live far from the urban core and still have a healthy city. The fact that most urban cores had been in decline for years didn't make people want to stay, anyway, and once they had a convenient way out (the highway system), they took it. I would say that this was not Cleveland's downfall specifically, but a downfall of the urban way of life. Luckily, people are now starting to realize the benefits that come with urbanity. Cities are more sustainable, generally have decent job prospects, better transportation options, and far more culture. Cleveland, like many cities that were once in freefall decline, is starting a resurgence.

[LIS123]

Originally Posted by KittySkyfish

My husband took a position in Bedford two months ago and we're looking at houses within 30 minutes of his company. Granted, as a new person to the Cleveland area, I can't contribute to why the city is struggling but I can tell you this: Your RE and income taxes are incredibly high. We're from Texas and are shocked at the amount we'll have to pay just to live in comparable neighborhoods. If we go apples to apples and select a neighborhood comparable to what we have here in Texas, we're looking at property taxes 75% higher than what we pay now - for a house that's about 1,000 sqft smaller. And this doesn't include the additional burden of your state income tax. We don't have this in Texas.

I'd rather live north of Bedford but financially, it's more affordable to purchase in Summit county.

BTW: I really like the area! I'm "Yay Cleveland!", not "ugh...cleveland." It's the taxes that are !

Remember, that 75% in RE taxes in the Cleveland area is AFTER the higher-than-otherwise-RE-taxes-in-TX bc of no state income tax. I think the area is OK but taxes WAY too heavily relative to what it offers. There is little here (besides medical care) that you can't get anywhere else with much lower taxes. With respect to highly specialized medical care, you can be treated at CCF or UH without living in the area; people do it all the time.

FYI, Macedonia and Twinsburg are nice places in Summit county that are within 30 minutes of Bedford. The taxes in Macedonia are much higher than I expected; it looks like the local income tax is 2%. I'm not able to find the exact RE tax rate, but it appears to be > 2%. You may not save as much.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Mr216

Now naming all of this do you think Cleveland can turn it around? Also people say Pittsburgh has turned around but has lost more than half of it's pop. since 1950 and the pop. dropped 8.6% from 2000-2010 from 334,563 to 305,704 which is lower than Cleveland so what has Pittsburgh done any better than Cleveland?

One thing about population... In 1950, the people who lived in the urban core tended to be families. The people moving back to the city tend to be younger professionals and empty nesters. So while cities are seeing urban growth, urban cores will probably not have the same populations that they had in 1950 and previously until cities can attract families back to them. So while cities like Pittsburgh have seen their economies diversified and their cores rebuilt to some extent, it will still be a challenge to maintain or grow overall population to what it was before.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by KittySkyfish

My husband took a position in Bedford two months ago and we're looking at houses within 30 minutes of his company. Granted, as a new person to the Cleveland area, I can't contribute to why the city is struggling but I can tell you this: Your RE and income taxes are incredibly high. We're from Texas and are shocked at the amount we'll have to pay just to live in comparable neighborhoods. If we go apples to apples and select a neighborhood comparable to what we have here in Texas, we're looking at property taxes 75% higher than what we pay now - for a house that's about 1,000 sqft smaller. And this doesn't include the additional burden of your state income tax. We don't have this in Texas.

I'd rather live north of Bedford but financially, it's more affordable to purchase in Summit county.

BTW: I really like the area! I'm "Yay Cleveland!", not "ugh...cleveland." It's the taxes that are !

Depending on where you're coming from in Texas, the tax burden overall is about equal or lower in Ohio, including the Cleveland area. Some things are going to be higher, some lower, but you have to look at the whole picture.

[Cleveland_Collector]

^Exactly.

Land and property values are also considerably higher here than they are in many areas of TX. You have to base it on the property value. You also have to consider median wages, sales taxes, education quality, and the cost of living in general. Saying that, "I paid $2k in TX and now I pay 3.5k in OH, WTF!!" is only really applicable if everything is identical. Certain things do cost more (mainly real estate). However, I'm fairly certain that your husband didn't take the position in Bedford because it paid less than what he was making in TX.

[CortlandGirl79]

I'm wondering what the sale's tax is in her area of Texas. Also is there a luxury tax there, ie. on cars, boats, etc.? Do that tax food in Texas?