Suburban merger? (Cleveland, Parma, Lakewood: crime, public schools, property taxes)

[Johddavi]

Admittedly, I just moved here a year ago, but my initial impression of NE Ohio that I keep coming back to is that Cleveland and its inner-ring burbs should merge. The city could benefit from all of the additional resources coming in from places like Shaker and Lakewood and maybe those living in the burbs would see their property taxes reduced without a severe reduction in their services. I'm sure this idea will be poo pooed, and isn't likely to ever happen, but I like the idea regardless, and am curious to get your thoughts and opinions.

[Cleverfield]

I agree, it needs to happen, but as we recently saw when 4 Eastern suburbs tried to merge, politicians are very reluctant to give up their power.

[andrew61]

I'm sure most residents of Shaker and Lakewood would not want their towns to become part of Cleveland. Not when their towns are overall better run while Cleveland has made such a mess of things over the years. Look at the crime and blight and inferior services in the city as compared to the suburbs. The suburbs do not want to give control to Cleveland politicians, and I for one can hardly blame them.

The only way it would happen is if the suburbs deteriorated to a point where they could no longer go it alone. But that scenario is still well off in the future, if it ever happens at all.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I'm sure most residents of Shaker and Lakewood would not want their towns to become part of Cleveland. Not when their towns are overall better run while Cleveland has made such a mess of things over the years. Look at the crime and blight and inferior services in the city as compared to the suburbs. The suburbs do not want to give control to Cleveland politicians, and I for one can hardly blame them.

The only way it would happen is if the suburbs deteriorated to a point where they could no longer go it alone. But that scenario is still well off in the future, if it ever happens at all.

Your knowledge of city politics is decades old and outdated. Cleveland is actually much better run than it used to be. Not saying it's great, but it is greatly improved. The fact that there are several free recreation centers in the city, all the streets get plowed in the winter (which they didn't in the past), streets are slowly, but surely being repaved, and that street cleaners have returned is a testament to this. You're probably right at this point, but if Cleveland continues going in the direction that it is, it may well be a good option in the future.

[taxedtodeath]

What's in it for the inner-burbs?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by taxedtodeath

What's in it for the inner-burbs?

This is the big question. I think it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint, but I don't know how you could convince some of the proud suburbs like Shaker, Cleveland Heights, Lakewood to go along.

[Befuddled63]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

This is the big question. I think it makes sense from an efficiency standpoint, but I don't know how you could convince some of the proud suburbs like Shaker, Cleveland Heights, Lakewood to go along.

practically any suburb of any city is going to be nicer than the core City. Suburbs are small governmental units and they aren't mired in bureaucracy and chain of command. That's why curb appeal in practically any suburb, including the most modest suburb, is always going to be better than what you see in the city. More attention to detail more focus I see no benefit to becoming part of a big city.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by Befuddled63

practically any suburb of any city is going to be nicer than the core City. Suburbs are small governmental units and they aren't mired in your accuracy in chain of command. That's why curb appeal in practically any suburb, including the most modern modest suburbs, is always going to be better than what you see in the city. More attention to detail more focus I see no benefit to becoming part of a big city.

Larger tax base means more city services. The city of Cleveland offers free recreation centers and pool access to all its residents. It also offers better transit options.

[Befuddled63]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Larger tax base means more city services. The city of Cleveland offers free recreation centers and pool access to all its residents. It also offers better transit options.

Who cares? It mean potholes and crumbling curbs because cities always take money from their nicer areas and spend them on their blighted areas. They underinvest in their nice areas and eventually the nice areas go to pot. It also means poor snow plowing and police response for much of the same reason. When you have a burglary the cops are all fighting some gang war in the inner city and it takes two hours to get to you. Suburbs are small focused areas and they do a pretty darn good job at the things that matter which are snow plowing, garbage collection, police response and basically running a clean area with nice curb appeal. I'll take even the older sections of Parma over most of what you see in Cleveland any day of the week.

[DanielWaterhouse]

Originally Posted by Befuddled63

Who cares? It mean potholes and crumbling curbs because cities always take money from their nicer areas and spend them on their blighted areas. They underinvest in their nice areas and eventually the nice areas go to pot. It also means poor snow plowing and police response for much of the same reason. When you have a burglary the cops are all fighting some gang war in the inner city and it takes two hours to get to you. Suburbs are small focused areas and they do a pretty darn good job at the things that matter which are snow plowing, garbage collection, police response and basically running a clean area with nice curb appeal. I'll take even the older sections of Parma over most of what you see in Cleveland any day of the week.

I agree completely and would just add that the city service that has the biggest impact is probably the public schools. Shaker Heights residents are justifiably proud of their excellent public schools (not to exclude Lakewood or any other suburb, this is just an example). What happens if they become part of Cleveland? It would be hard to imagine that the schools would continue to get the resources that they have in the past once becoming part of Cleveland city schools.