Thoughts on the Cleveland Police shooting and Race Relations (Independence: appointed, attorneys)

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Criticize one group for stereotyping and then stereotype the same group. The cop that shot Tamir Rice wasn't driving the patrol car.

What would you do if you were the cop with Tamir Rice reaching for a ''toy'' gun? Did you see the 60 Minutes story?

Elect a new mayor and move into the City of Cleveland so you can help pay for better qualified cops; actually you should run for mayor since you seem to have a magic wand remedy at hand.

Having the government pay for Community College should work, right?

I thought Obama was supposed to fix the inane tax and economic policies that impoverish local governments. He certainly did a great job fixing Chicago's South Side; a top gun shooting-foreclosure plagued area in the country. Obama and his Chicago cronies. Please.

Kamms, I also read the NY Times article about the Tamir Rice shooting that failed to mention Loehmann lying to his superiors in Independence. There was no mention that Loehmann's father said that his son wanted to be a Cleveland police officer because he wanted more action.

The police officers interviewed in the 60 Minutes segment seemed exceptional. Loehmann and his partner did not.

My opinion is that the media and especially the Cleveland media are trying to justify the Tamir Rice shooting.

That's why the PD in one of its first follow-up stories to the Tamir Rice shooting explored the violent background of the parents. Others in this thread, perhaps you, indicted the mother for allowing her son to have a toy gun. We now know that the mother forbid toy guns, and that the pellet gun actually was borrowed from a friend.

The police union says that the car skidded, yet no journalist asks why the driver decided to leave a paved road in the first place or was driving at such a high speed or even clearly decided to close on a suspect within such dangerous range.

No one, not 60 Minutes, not the NY Times, not the Cleveland media has asked why there was no audio recording of the incident. Many police departments nationally and locally require the audio recording of all interactions between police officers and the public. Why isn't this the case in Cleveland? Why isn't this an issue? No one seems to believe that Loehmann warned Rice three times to raise his hands. Was this another Loehmann lie? Did Loehmann instead ask Rice, "where is the gun?," perhaps explaining why Rice was reaching for his gun. Without an audio recording, we don't know what was said between Loehmann and Rice. If I were on a jury, would I take Loehmann's word for what happened? Hell no, based on what I've read. Would you?

I've watched the Tamir Rice video several times. Rice never had time to pull the gun from his waistband. Loehmann exited the vehicle in a panic, shooting Rice almost immediately, then actually falling backwards. This seems consistent with Loehmann's mental breakdown on the Independence shooting range.

Yet you and others have no problem with Rice's death? I think it's highly likely that this shooting will cost Cleveland millions in a civil settlement. That alone should disturb Cleveland citizens.

Obama IMO has been much too lax in diverting scarce resources to international policing efforts, but he's a saint compared to Republicans. With half billion dollar federal cash deficits and multi-trillion federal deficits using the accrual accounting required of public corporations, the U.S. is flirting with a massive fiscal collapse.

Yet the Republicans would further gut U.S. domestic programs and certainly infrastructure while further digging an overseas hole, especially with Iran. The Republicans talk a great game about immigration, but have yet to pass any bill to deal with illegal immigrants let alone IMO the ridiculous birth right citizenship issue. Why? Because some of the Republican financial donors like cheap labor, or, like the Democrats, they are flirting with Hispanic and even Asian voters who favor lax immigration policies.

So we divert hundreds of billions to our international military profile, while underfunding domestic safety and welfare. Would you object if there were national standards for audio and video recording devices for police officers and funding for the same?

Before Iraq, experts warned if you break it, you own it. Now there is ISIS.

By do we own it today. Are you happy, Kamms?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Kamms, I also read the NY Times article about the Tamir Rice shooting that failed to mention Loehmann lying to his superiors in Independence. There was no mention that Loehmann's father said that his son wanted to be a Cleveland police officer because he wanted more action.

The police officers interviewed in the 60 Minutes segment seemed exceptional. Loehmann and his partner did not.

My opinion is that the media and especially the Cleveland media are trying to justify the Tamir Rice shooting.

That's why the PD in one of its first follow-up stories to the Tamir Rice shooting explored the violent background of the parents. Others in this thread, perhaps you, indicted the mother for allowing her son to have a toy gun. We now know that the mother forbid toy guns, and that the pellet gun actually was borrowed from a friend.

The police union says that the car skidded, yet no journalist asks why the driver decided to leave a paved road in the first place or was driving at such a high speed or even clearly decided to close on a suspect within such dangerous range.

No one, not 60 Minutes, not the NY Times, not the Cleveland media has asked why there was no audio recording of the incident. Many police departments nationally and locally require the audio recording of all interactions between police officers and the public. Why isn't this the case in Cleveland? Why isn't this an issue? No one seems to believe that Loehmann warned Rice three times to raise his hands. Was this another Loehmann lie? Did Loehmann instead ask Rice, "where is the gun?," perhaps explaining why Rice was reaching for his gun. Without an audio recording, we don't know what was said between Loehmann and Rice. If I were on a jury, would I take Loehmann's word for what happened? Hell no, based on what I've read. Would you?

I've watched the Tamir Rice video several times. Rice never had time to pull the gun from his waistband. Loehmann exited the vehicle in a panic, shooting Rice almost immediately, then actually falling backwards. This seems consistent with Loehmann's mental breakdown on the Independence shooting range.

Yet you and others have no problem with Rice's death? I think it's highly likely that this shooting will cost Cleveland millions in a civil settlement. That alone should disturb Cleveland citizens.

Obama IMO has been much too lax in diverting scarce resources to international policing efforts, but he's a saint compared to Republicans. With half billion dollar federal cash deficits and multi-trillion federal deficits using the accrual accounting required of public corporations, the U.S. is flirting with a massive fiscal collapse.

Yet the Republicans would further gut U.S. domestic programs and certainly infrastructure while further digging an overseas hole, especially with Iran. The Republicans talk a great game about immigration, but have yet to pass any bill to deal with illegal immigrants let alone IMO the ridiculous birth right citizenship issue. Why? Because some of the Republican financial donors like cheap labor, or, like the Democrats, they are flirting with Hispanic and even Asian voters who favor lax immigration policies.

So we divert hundreds of billions to our international military profile, while underfunding domestic safety and welfare. Would you object if there were national standards for audio and video recording devices for police officers and funding for the same?

Before Iraq, experts warned if you break it, you own it. Now there is ISIS.

By do we own it today. Are you happy, Kamms?

I don't know what you're talking about...now I'm happy about Iraq? Thanks...moving on now.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I don't know what you're talking about...now I'm happy about Iraq? Thanks...moving on now.

Your animosity of Obama's policies suggested that you greatly preferred the alternative. If this is incorrect, it's not evident in your posts. And, if you've supported the Republicans since 2000, you do own the mess in Iraq, like it or not.

[WRnative]

City of Cleveland to pay $6 million to Tamir Rice's family to settle lawsuit | cleveland.com

Tamir Rice shooting: Cleveland to settle with $6M - CNN.com

Mayor Frank Jackson video comments on settlement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/us...ment.html?_r=0

[ohioaninsc]

It's criminal that those officers weren't indicted in this...
I don't care what the situation is, you don't shoot a 12 yr old kid.

Hopefully, the police department is getting better training to prevent over use of force like this again.

[L2DB]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

I don't care what the situation is, you don't shoot a 12 yr old kid.

[maxmodder]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

It's criminal that those officers weren't indicted in this...
I don't care what the situation is, you don't shoot a 12 yr old kid.

Hopefully, the police department is getting better training to prevent over use of force like this again.

So if a 12 yr old kid has a gun pointed at one of your family members, you just sit back and not shoot? After all, he's only 12.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

It's criminal that those officers weren't indicted in this...
I don't care what the situation is, you don't shoot a 12 yr old kid.

Hopefully, the police department is getting better training to prevent over use of force like this again.

So when a 12-year old kid with a hoodie on, looking older than his age, waving a fake gun altered to look real in a known gang area, etc....where were his parents?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by maxmodder

So if a 12 yr old kid has a gun pointed at one of your family members, you just sit back and not shoot? After all, he's only 12.

The 12-year-old didn't have a gun pointed at the police officer who shot him.

We'll never know exactly why he was reaching for the pellet gun in his waist band, when the officer exited the vehicle within one second shot him dead, then the two officers didn't administer first aid for five minutes. The problem for the officers is that they likely had no idea that their actions and inaction was being recorded on a security system.

The officer who shot the 12-year-old had been cashiered from the Independence force for, among other things, unsatisfactory performance on a gun range and for lying to superiors, according to my memories of news reports.

Cleveland apparently is one of the few police departments in northeast Ohio without dash cams and which doesn't record the interactions of its officers with civilians or suspects.

For all we know, the officer asked Tamer Rice, "Where is the gun?," not instructing him three times to raise his hands, as the officer claimed.

The officers drove a car to the proximity of the suspect, putting themselves in a lethal situation. Experts said this was poor tactics.

The police dispatch didn't inform the officers that the weapon was possibly a toy, even though the 911 caller made that observation.

Cleveland had a poor case and settled for $6 million, a significant settlement just as I predicted at the beginning of this thread.

In typical Maxmodder fashion, you create a false, straw man argument, and use that to justify a shooting that resulted in the death of a 12-year-old under unnecessary circumstances.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

So when a 12-year old kid with a hoodie on, looking older than his age, waving a fake gun altered to look real in a known gang area, etc....where were his parents?

Kamms, his mother didn't allow her child to have a toy gun. He made a trade with a friend to obtain it. This is widely held public knowledge and I believe discussed earlier in this thread.

Don't you or your kids wear hoodies? Should they or you be shot for any likely cause because they are wearing a hoodie?

Sick reasoning IMO.