2015 homicides on the rise in Cleveland (homes, medical, murder rate)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Yes, it's the media... and not police being reckless, ill-trained and/or corrupt and racist.

Unfortunately the fallout has been increased racial tensions between black and white citizens generally. The media does only mention race when it is white cops verse black citizen situations; not so much when black officers are involved.

Didn't say the police were blameless, ill-trained or corrupt or racist but please consider these sobering facts as well:

There are 6,000 black homicide victims in the U.S. This is more than all white and Hispanics homicide victims combined yet blacks are only 12% of the population. Blacks of all ages are killed at six times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined.

The national rate of homicides committed by blacks is eight times that of whites and Hispanics combined. Black males between 14 and 17 commit homicide at 10 times the rate of white and Hispanic male teens combined.

The police could end all use of force, justified and unjustified, and it would have a trivial effect on the black death rate. FBI stats disclose that police use deadly force on about 400 citizens a year, about 132 of them are black. Some say the estimates are higher but the rate for blacks remain about 1/3 of any of these totals; a rate, nonetheless, that is lower than black crime rates would predict.

In New York City, for example, at 23% of the city's population, blacks commit 75% of all shootings, 70% of all robberies and 66% of all violent crimes (according to victims of and witnesses to these crimes).

Whites are 33% of the city's population but commit less than 2% of all shootings, 4% of all robberies and 5% of all violent crimes.

These stats suggest that every time NYPD are called after a shooting, they are going into minority 'hoods looking for minority suspects. Of course, these victims are never commemorated by the national media coverage or President Obama. As the protesters were marching in Ferguson last March a 6 year old in St Louis was killed by a stray bullet; 3 children under 6 years old killed in Cleveland in a month.

The change in police tactics in NYC since about 1990 has saved at least the lives of 10,000 minority males; there were 2,262 homicides in 1990 NYC while 2014 saw 333 (or an 85% decrease).

The police response to getting dealers off the streets etc will generate racially disproportionate statistics used by many groups in lawsuits brought by the DOJ or the ACLU.

I know you now live in Mexico City and grew up in place like Columbus OH so your cliché naïve response is expected as your liberal bias would never consider, let alone discuss, the foregoing statistics. There needs to be a broad discussion on both the police tactics and the black-on-black crime issues in the U.S.

I would love to see you on the NYPD. You would be chewed-up and spit out by these minority communities as they love them some white liberals.

[Clevelander216]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Yes, it's the media... and not police being reckless, ill-trained and/or corrupt and racist.

I'm sorry, but if you truly think that the reason for all these young children getting shot and killed is due to the "corrupt police", then you are an imbecile. That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time.

[Clevelander216]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Unfortunately the fallout has been increased racial tensions between black and white citizens generally. The media does only mention race when it is white cops verse black citizen situations; not so much when black officers are involved.

Didn't say the police were blameless, ill-trained or corrupt or racist but please consider these sobering facts as well:

There are 6,000 black homicide victims in the U.S. This is more than all white and Hispanics homicide victims combined yet blacks are only 12% of the population. Blacks of all ages are killed at six times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined.

The national rate of homicides committed by blacks is eight times that of whites and Hispanics combined. Black males between 14 and 17 commit homicide at 10 times the rate of white and Hispanic male teens combined.

The police could end all use of force, justified and unjustified, and it would have a trivial effect on the black death rate. FBI stats disclose that police use deadly force on about 400 citizens a year, about 132 of them are black. Some say the estimates are higher but the rate for blacks remain about 1/3 of any of these totals; a rate, nonetheless, that is lower than black crime rates would predict.

In New York City, for example, at 23% of the city's population, blacks commit 75% of all shootings, 70% of all robberies and 66% of all violent crimes (according to victims of and witnesses to these crimes).

Whites are 33% of the city's population but commit less than 2% of all shootings, 4% of all robberies and 5% of all violent crimes.

These stats suggest that every time NYPD are called after a shooting, they are going into minority 'hoods looking for minority suspects. Of course, these victims are never commemorated by the national media coverage or President Obama. As the protesters were marching in Ferguson last March a 6 year old in St Louis was killed by a stray bullet; 3 children under 6 years old killed in Cleveland in a month.

The change in police tactics in NYC since about 1990 has saved at least the lives of 10,000 minority males; there were 2,262 homicides in 1990 NYC while 2014 saw 333 (or an 85% decrease).

The police response to getting dealers off the streets etc will generate racially disproportionate statistics used by many groups in lawsuits brought by the DOJ or the ACLU.

I know you now live in Mexico City and grew up in place like Columbus OH so your cliché naïve response is expected as your liberal bias would never consider, let alone discuss, the foregoing statistics. There needs to be a broad discussion on both the police tactics and the black-on-black crime issues in the U.S.

I would love to see you on the NYPD. You would be chewed-up and spit out by these minority communities as they love them some white liberals.

A-freakin-men to this brother! Very well said and I couldn't agree more. The violence and crime among the black community is staggering! Yet if you point out that fact, you are labeled as a bigot and a racist. It really makes me sick that people just look past these facts and continue to blame it all on the "racist and corrupt police". I really do not understand it at all.... it is the "gangsta" and thug culture that is destroying urban black neighborhoods.

[Yac]

As the discussion continues, remember to keep it Cleveland specific. And that as with almost everything, the truth probably lays somewhere in the middle.
Yac.

[maxmodder]

One dead in I-480 pursuit at State Road; I-480 EB closed

Guy had a death wish.

[WeSoHood]

I never liked the black vs. white debate. If it was as cut and dry as race, places like Russia or the Phillipines would be safe...when they're anything but. Socioeconomic issues, poor schools, broken families, etc create a recipe for crime.


But on to the next topic: current homicides. I think it's pretty cyclical right now. We had a great Gang program that locked up a lot of bad guys, but it also opened the door for the younger kids and teenagers to spin-off their own gangs in those neighborhoods. After Mayor Jane Campbell shut down the Gang initiatives, there was no Gang Unit or system to stop the young kids and teenagers. It's a mess.

Just my take. Cleveland isn't alone though - this is a big issue all over the place. Despite what a lot of Clevelander's think, many cities our size have more homicides/higher per capita rate. That's not an excuse at all, I'm just illustrating it's a national problem.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Jane Campbell hasn't been Mayor for over 9 years. It's not that I was a huge fan of her's, but it's foolhardy to blame people who have been out of office for nearly a decade for current day violence. The recent issues have much more to do with the uptick in heroin/opiate/opioid use and dependency than any other specific issue. While worse than in recent years, this is far from the worst we have seen. What has white-bread suburbia shaking in its boots all over the country is that this latest rash of dependency, addiction and death has found its way into the Mayberry-esque bedroom communities. The same people deriding the inner city community over the crack epidemic of 20 years ago are now seeing the same thing in their own community. And, when there is a premium to be made, the middlemen in the supply chain become more adamant about controlling their claim and enforcing their territory. Thus far, the trafficking territory is comprised of the usual areas and suspects. The difference this time is that suburbia is being directly impacted by the end product, hence the high level of attention over a very old and predictably cyclical problem.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Jane Campbell hasn't been Mayor for over 9 years. It's not that I was a huge fan of her's, but it's foolhardy to blame people who have been out of office for nearly a decade for current day violence. The recent issues have much more to do with the uptick in heroin/opiate/opioid use and dependency than any other specific issue. While worse than in recent years, this is far from the worst we have seen. What has white-bread suburbia shaking in its boots all over the country is that this latest rash of dependency, addiction and death has found its way into the Mayberry-esque bedroom communities. The same people deriding the inner city community over the crack epidemic of 20 years ago are now seeing the same thing in their own community. And, when there is a premium to be made, the middlemen in the supply chain become more adamant about controlling their claim and enforcing their territory. Thus far, the trafficking territory is comprised of the usual areas and suspects. The difference this time is that suburbia is being directly impacted by the end product, hence the high level of attention over a very old and predictably cyclical problem.

So that 6 month old baby was caught up in a heroin deal gone bad? Drugs have been in the suburbs for years. The difference may be now that the suburbs are getting the Cleveland refugees by way the county depopulating (those white people that were shaking in their boots are now in Medina, Lorain etc counties). Fifty-five % of the black population now call the suburbs home; is this the reference you were making by the suburbia being directly impacted by the end product?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Oh, come on now...

Not all suburbs are equal and you know that. I will also point out that I said the "white-bread...Mayberry-esque bedroom communities." Drugs have always been in the suburbs (and so have black people) to a certain extent, but there was never much of an impact of the inner city crack epidemic which hit its peak 20 years ago. The relatively new heroin/opiate/opioid epidemic is now affecting the more affluent, white suburbs in a big way and it has nothing to do with their non-existent black population. What it has to do with is their privileged idiot teens and young adults with deeper pockets seeking out and becoming addicted to opiates. This is making the trade of these drugs more lucrative and the "defense" of the trafficking territories (read: the usual, inner-city territories) more prolific. This, of course, is directly related to the uptick in gun violence. And, unfortunately, stray bullets fired by violent punks don't discriminate between their intended targets and innocent children.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Oh, come on now...

Not all suburbs are equal and you know that. I will also point out that I said the "white-bread...Mayberry-esque bedroom communities." Drugs have always been in the suburbs (and so have black people) to a certain extent, but there was never much of an impact of the inner city crack epidemic which hit its peak 20 years ago. The relatively new heroin/opiate/opioid epidemic is now affecting the more affluent, white suburbs in a big way and it has nothing to do with their non-existent black population. What it has to do with is their privileged idiot teens and young adults with deeper pockets seeking out and becoming addicted to opiates. This is making the trade of these drugs more lucrative and the "defense" of the trafficking territories (read: the usual, inner-city territories) more prolific. This, of course, is directly related to the uptick in gun violence. And, unfortunately, stray bullets fired by violent punks don't discriminate between their intended targets and innocent children.

OK, the heroin trade is contributing to the uptick in gun violence, but so is the media and public bashing of the police. I just haven't heard of the Heroin Wars in inner-cities like the Crack Wars of the late '80s-early '90s.

Blacks have lived in suburbs to an extent but never at 55%. No one is putting them down for ''black flight'' though, which it is. Cuyahoga County is shrinking as well as the city.