Subway from airport to cleveland clinic (Euclid, Ohio City: section 8, university, income)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Yes, I hope RTA do the WFL loop because it would be very helpful for kids at CSU and Tri-C as well as medical personnel at St. Vincent's Hosp. It is kinda weird the WFL just ends at Muny Lot.

Right, route for the places you named, serve PHS etc. Make it user friendly, which includes, obviously, user available. Mixed users; students, medical personal, tourists, workers, folks out on the town for a night that want to hit the Flats and get back to their hotel rooms later.

Still say RTA should develop a station at Gateway with access near, say, E 4th/Huron, riders would head west to a west-east platform. There are several ways to tweak Cleveland rail service to enhance use and economic growth.

We should also look at the old Huron Road subway; not sure how much of it was built but I believe there is a tunnel to some extent.

A light-rail extension to the west side should use the Detroit-Superior viaduct; it's already there.

[TheProf]

I didn't think about that old tunnel. The earlier loop maps I've seen had the WFL going down E. 22nd, past St. V's, Tri-C then the Main Post Office, then heading to the current Red, Blue, Green line ditch, turning to the northwest then lowering down to track level for the track connection. The Huron tunnel which I've heard actually makes connection to the Rapid anyway, but then Tri-C, St. Vincent's and the P.O. get cut out.

[216facts]

The riderta website needs a little more (or less?) artificial intelligence. Some interesting routes:
From: "Hopkins" To: "Cleveland Clinic". riderta tells me to take the redline to W25, get off and take the 51 bus to Metrohealth.

From: "Hopkins" To: "Cleveland Clinic Foundation". riderta tells me to take the redline to Stokes/Windermere then hop on the 9 bus to the Crile building at CCF. (who needs the Healthline when you can take the 9)

Another problem in my opinion, if somebody from out of town needs to take the red line downtown and then the blue line to Shaker, riderta says to get off of the red line downtown (correct) and get on the Blue/Green/Waterfront line. This is confusing, they should say get on the blue line. They named them different colors so you can refer to the different lines. I know they share tracks but so what.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by dr_j_planning

Kamms, would you please cite your source for the statement: "The Green Line has the lowest ridership for a light-rail system nationally?"

According to the American Public Transportation Association's (APTA's) 3Q 2015 Ridership Report, the most recent available, the lowest ridership during the first nine months of 2015 among all light rail systems in the United States was Tampa FL (216,600). Cleveland GCRTA Light Rail ridership during the first nine months of 2015 was 1,898,900. Other light rail systems with lower ridership than Cleveland during the same period are Seattle-King County WA (489,900) and Hampton Roads VA (1,104,400). Across the United States, total light rail ridership during this period was 365,369,200.

Cleveland GCRTA Light Rail Ridership decreased 7.2% from the first nine months of 2014 to the first nine months of 2015. Other light rail systems with greater ridership decreases than Cleveland during the same period are: Seattle-King County WA (-10.1%); Hampton Roads VA (-13.8%); and Baltimore MD (-14.4%). Across the United States, light rail ridership increased 0.2% during this period.

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

The Green Line ridership component of Cleveland's light-rail system is abysmal. You cite to light-rail systems ridership numbers, including Cleveland's, but the Green Line is only one line of the, technically, 3 lines in the system. Perhaps the Waterfront Line has the lowest light-rail ridership figures.

Cleveland's light-rail was built in 1913 and was known until the 1970s as the Shaker Rapid due to the fact that it was designed to serve Shaker Heights residents working and going downtown. Well, those days working and going downtown have changed. The Green Line serves Shaker Blvd and its surrounding low-density environs. Hence, current low-ridership numbers.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

That's not true. The Waterfront line was well used on Friday and Saturday nights when the Flats was in its heyday right after the line was opened in 1996. I remember trains were very busy, esp around the clubs were closing during the summer -- and in those days, RTA ran the trains till 2:15/2:30 on summer weekend nights. When the Flats died, so did WL patronage. People got in the habit of not using it and have only trickled back with the new development on the East Bank (which is going to grow even bigger and stronger with Phase III which btw will cannibalize that big, fat surface lot in the middle of the development -- Egad! what will become of the poor, bedraggled driver who's allergic to public transit!?

Your luggage argument is old and weak. Carrying heavy luggage is a problem on any rail transit train, not just Cleveland's. Have you ever flown into O'Hare or Midway in Chicago? The Chicago L trains are considerably smaller than RTA Red Line cars primarily because, in the Loop, the L makes tight turns that longer cars can't negotiate. And they have no luggage racks at all. I've had light luggage on packed L cars and had to use the extra space on my seat for my small bag ... and got dirty looks for the 40-minute ride in from O'Hare. Oh, btw, once downtown the connections to other L lines and even to the main (Red) line in the Loop are terrible; in one case, you have to walk through a long underground tunnel to connect with Red Line trains north the Magnificent Mile area...Some transfers require riders to leave the station and walk on the street to another L line connection.

Also, you mention Philadelphia's new entrances under City Hall as a convenient new connection. What you fail to note is the long walk upstairs (there's no escalators up from the platforms) from the dingy, tight, awful Broad Street subway City Hall station. How is that better than RTA's Tower City? The HL connection from the temp-controlled, clean, beautiful Tower City station to Public Sq is a snap compared to Philly ... or most cities. ...

Why do Cleveland people act like the rapid is the worst system in the world, yet other people in other cities (including traveling Clevelanders) put up with the inconveniences of other cities and ride their rails? It's baffling. Ridership is often low on Cleveland's rapid because people are too ignorant, lazy or car-centric and spoiled to use the darn thing where as other cities would figuratively give their right arm to have what we've got.

Ridership is low because most people do not live near the rapid and it's easier to drive. Many cities would give its right arm to have a rail system, just not Cleveland's current configuration of one.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Cleveland uses free bus trolleys and the Healthline BRT to provide downtown transportation. It's actually a very convenient system.

Unfortunately, there's some discussion about discontinuing the free bus trolleys due to the absence of downtown business sponsorship.

If it's so convenient, why are ridership numbers so low? Why did the urban mall, at the center of the rail system, go from Gucci to Hootchie?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

If it's so convenient, why are ridership numbers so low? Why did the urban mall, at the center of the rail system, go from Gucci to Hootchie?

There's still a Brooks Brothers in Tower City.

What's especially convenient downtown are the free bus trolleys. There is no need for a subway at this time.

Eventually, density will increase along rail rapid lines, especially when fuel prices inevitably increase once again.

A hike in the Cleveland income tax, however, likely will be a major negative for jobs in Cleveland proper and RTA usage.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WRnative

There's still a Brooks Brothers in Tower City.

What's especially convenient downtown are the free bus trolleys. There is no need for a subway at this time.

Eventually, density will increase along rail rapid lines, especially when fuel prices inevitably increase once again.

A hike in the Cleveland income tax, however, likely will be a major negative for jobs in Cleveland proper and RTA usage.

That income tax hike has me very skeptical of the ability of leadership to get out of the way and let the people rebuild the city they love. Way to disuade folks from moving back home too.

[bjimmy24]

And the trolley things downtown are way more efficient in terms of cost for Cleveland. I mean. If we had three times the population then laying tracks wouldn't sound crazy, but as it is, there is just no way to justify those mlions being spent on something people don't know if they'd use.

Will be interesting to see what happens after gas prices start going up again.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

And the trolley things downtown are way more efficient in terms of cost for Cleveland. I mean. If we had three times the population then laying tracks wouldn't sound crazy, but as it is, there is just no way to justify those mlions being spent on something people don't know if they'd use.

Will be interesting to see what happens after gas prices start going up again.

In Cleveland's case though, there is a rail system in place. All it needs is a bit of tweaking; namely, the WFL line, for starters, cutting through the CBD.