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Old 09-19-2018, 01:22 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,423,272 times
Reputation: 7217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teacherdad View Post
I'm so lucky and glad I took her back to CLE last Feb. She still talks about the trip and going down memory lane.
I sent you a DM which hopefully may be of benefit.

Several years before my mother died, but when her driving was uncertain, I also took her on a trip back to a time of her life of which I had little knowledge. She was an elementary teacher across locations in central Ohio and Greater Cleveland and her former students invited her to their 60th reunion several hundred miles away from where she taught most of her career, raised her family and lived most of her life.

It did not take me long to realize this was a gift to me as well as my mother. It confirmed her life's work and I was amazed about how these adults regaled with me with stories about how much they had appreciated my mother, as an elementary school teacher and not a high school teacher. I learned things that amaze me to this day -- my mom started in a single room schoolhouse and taught subsequently in a school run Prussian style by a strict principal of German ethnicity. It surprised me that she had never shared much of this with us.

You likely have similar memories of your trip back to Cleveland. They will be a gift to you that keeps giving, especially once you move to Cleveland.

My prayers to your mom, you and your family.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:59 PM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,915,130 times
Reputation: 8743
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
I did a little research on the first of the books you cited, and I'll let Bill Gates tell you why this is a guy with a lot of loose bolts in his thinking.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Afr...lawed-Theories

There are too many persons in this world, and especially in the U.S., who have no understanding of what economists now call "externalities."
Gates endorsed the last three of the four books, called the Pinker book his favorite book of all time, and his criticism of Ridley (which is partly justified - Ridley is not God) is tempered by this comment from Gates:

"The Rational Optimist would be a great book if Mr. Ridley had wrapped things up before these hokey policy discussions and his venting against those he considers to be pessimists. I agree with him that some people are overly concerned with potential problems, and I hadn't realized that this pessimism was so common in rich countries over the last several centuries. As John Stuart Mill said in 1828, in a quote from the book that I especially enjoyed: 'I have observed that not the man who hopes when others despair, but the man who despairs when others hope, is admired by a large class of persons as a sage.'”

Since I am a professional economist who has written extensively on externalities, and have no tolerance of Trump, I will ignore the rest of your comments.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:32 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,423,272 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Gates endorsed the last three of the four books, called the Pinker book his favorite book of all time, and his criticism of Ridley (which is partly justified - Ridley is not God) is tempered by this comment from Gates:

"The Rational Optimist would be a great book if Mr. Ridley had wrapped things up before these hokey policy discussions and his venting against those he considers to be pessimists. I agree with him that some people are overly concerned with potential problems, and I hadn't realized that this pessimism was so common in rich countries over the last several centuries. As John Stuart Mill said in 1828, in a quote from the book that I especially enjoyed: 'I have observed that not the man who hopes when others despair, but the man who despairs when others hope, is admired by a large class of persons as a sage.'”

Since I am a professional economist who has written extensively on externalities, and have no tolerance of Trump, I will ignore the rest of your comments.
Then there are men who mock and persecute trained scientists who have accurately warned us of the accelerating degradation of our environment.

According to Bill Gates, Ridley advocates a "rational optimism" that states the scientific concern over man-made climate change is overblown. Apparently you believe this, or you wouldn't have recommended the book.

Gates cringes over Ridley's belittling of the impacts of man-made climate change, and so do I.

As this is an anonymous discussion forum, I don't know if you're a professional economist or not. I'm skeptical because anybody that has written extensively about externalities should be appalled by anyone who suggests that concerns over man-made climate change are overblown, unless they are greatly ignorant about the present impact on our environment, as measured by empirical data, let alone the much worst consequences predicted for just a few decades ahead by peer-reviewed scientific studies.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:48 AM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,915,130 times
Reputation: 8743
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Then there are men who mock and persecute trained scientists who have accurately warned us of the accelerating degradation of our environment.

According to Bill Gates, Ridley advocates a "rational optimism" that states the scientific concern over man-made climate change is overblown. Apparently you believe this, or you wouldn't have recommended the book.

Gates cringes over Ridley's belittling of the impacts of man-made climate change, and so do I.

As this is an anonymous discussion forum, I don't know if you're a professional economist or not. I'm skeptical because anybody that has written extensively about externalities should be appalled by anyone who suggests that concerns over man-made climate change are overblown, unless they are greatly ignorant about the present impact on our environment, as measured by empirical data, let alone the much worst consequences predicted for just a few decades ahead by peer-reviewed scientific studies.
http://www.larrysiegel.org

I think Ridley is correct in arguing that treating worst-case scenarios as most-likely scenarios discourages action that could actually help, because if nothing can be done to solve the problem, nothing will be done. I favor a cost-benefit approach, where the costs of adapting to warming are balanced against the costs of trying to prevent it (which will probably be completely ineffective).

Ridley is on one end of a spectrum. The views expressed at An ECOMODERNIST MANIFESTO are closer to my own. Bjorn Lomborg's work is also very much worth reading. His mission is to balance spending resources on combating global warming with spending on other problems that have a more immediate solution. He also thinks we will have to adapt to warming because there is not much we can do about it.

My book web site should be up in a matter of weeks and if you're interested, you can look to see if Fewer Richer Greener is under construction is up and running. At this point, there's nothing there, but I've written 13 chapters and I am just waiting for my web designer to get around to putting the web site together. The book will be published in 2019 by Wiley.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:20 AM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,373,416 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
I sent you a DM which hopefully may be of benefit.

Several years before my mother died, but when her driving was uncertain, I also took her on a trip back to a time of her life of which I had little knowledge. She was an elementary teacher across locations in central Ohio and Greater Cleveland and her former students invited her to their 60th reunion several hundred miles away from where she taught most of her career, raised her family and lived most of her life.

It did not take me long to realize this was a gift to me as well as my mother. It confirmed her life's work and I was amazed about how these adults regaled with me with stories about how much they had appreciated my mother, as an elementary school teacher and not a high school teacher. I learned things that amaze me to this day -- my mom started in a single room schoolhouse and taught subsequently in a school run Prussian style by a strict principal of German ethnicity. It surprised me that she had never shared much of this with us.

You likely have similar memories of your trip back to Cleveland. They will be a gift to you that keeps giving, especially once you move to Cleveland.

My prayers to your mom, you and your family.
Nice post.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:06 PM
 
227 posts, read 197,968 times
Reputation: 465
Beyond the endless contention and self-aggrandizement, Larry, what is your take on the article in the OP of this thread? About the current and future livability of "heat belt" cities? Many in this thread, myself included, are under the impression that those cities are going to trend a lot "less livable" in the coming years (decades).

I assume (by your unsolicited list of book recommendations and the posting of your website) you share in agreement with both Pinker and other neo-liberals that, "Things are great and always getting better! Buy, buy, buy!"

Mr. Pinker's book proves that numbers can deceive even the smartest among us. His book is fundamentally flawed on multiple levels. First and foremost, he gets completely drunk on the aggregate data and makes grandiose (over-simplified) conclusions from it. What appears as Science - in the form of statements followed by charts and statistics - is simple hyperbole and conflation of fact. The data is used to tell a story that does not agree with the common senses of any history department.

Secondly, to the point of philosophy, he shows a lack of understanding about the very "Enlightenment" he grounds the book. My editions of The Social Contract and The Wealth of Nations must be different than his.

A far better critique on Pinker's book: https://www.thenation.com/article/wa...enlightenment/

Back to you though. What is your hot take on the original article?

Last edited by HueysBack; 09-20-2018 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,886 posts, read 1,440,830 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacherdad View Post
Thanks all! It was a bit surreal. My mom began coughing a bit in early Aug. She went for some tests. Yesterday, we found out the worst possible news: Stage 4 lung cancer! I learned this from my brother. She did not tell me because, "It was my bday."

She lived an ultra healthy lifestyle. Apparently, it was a genetic DNA deal. There was nothing she could have done to prevent it at some point. Her brother, who lives off the 422, just finished throat cancer treatment last year. My first thought was CLE in the 40's and 50's..air. Or that she has swam for over 70 years regularly in chlorine treated pools. However, they say it was DNA.

Reading over 100 FB Bdy wishes and knowing this was a tough day. We had my usual bday deal at home and I did not bring up that I knew the deal. Today, I'll call and take her out for a walk.

This is the mom that raised 3 boys from the age of 10, 8, and 6. We had close to nothing. Christmas was choosing gifts at the Salvation Army one year. Soccer uniforms were school clothes at times. She was also a Browns Cheerleader in '59. Brush High and then Bowling Green. I have never gone more than a week without calling or talking to her. I'm still in total shock.

Today.. I'm the teacher, my middle brother is a fire chief (13 stations), and my youngest, the only deaf pilot and flight instructor that we know of in the US. She should be proud!

Sorry, but since I am not posting this on FB yet, I wanted to vent a bit.

I'm so lucky and glad I took her back to CLE last Feb. She still talks about the trip and going down memory lane.

Peace- Rob

I am there in early Oct and Dec.
Keep your head up. Prayers out to your mom and your family.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:54 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,423,272 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
http://www.larrysiegel.org

I think Ridley is correct in arguing that treating worst-case scenarios as most-likely scenarios discourages action that could actually help, because if nothing can be done to solve the problem, nothing will be done. I favor a cost-benefit approach, where the costs of adapting to warming are balanced against the costs of trying to prevent it (which will probably be completely ineffective).

Ridley is on one end of a spectrum. The views expressed at An ECOMODERNIST MANIFESTO are closer to my own. Bjorn Lomborg's work is also very much worth reading. His mission is to balance spending resources on combating global warming with spending on other problems that have a more immediate solution. He also thinks we will have to adapt to warming because there is not much we can do about it.

My book web site should be up in a matter of weeks and if you're interested, you can look to see if Fewer Richer Greener is under construction is up and running. At this point, there's nothing there, but I've written 13 chapters and I am just waiting for my web designer to get around to putting the web site together. The book will be published in 2019 by Wiley.
Shabby economic philosophies and conclusions that ignore observed reality (melting Arctic ice caps, intensified storms and droughts, massive wildfires that are destroying our great western forests, ocean inundation of entire nations and our eastern coast, ocean warming and acidification) and especially empirical scientific data that lead to disastrous outcomes, if not checked, are appalling to me. Whether intentional or not, they provide excuses for man-made climate change deniers and obfuscators to spread their ignorance and to enforce poor policies that ignore the findings of actual climate change scientists.

E.g., posts 15 and 16 in this thread.

//www.city-data.com/forum/ohio/...ons-gop-2.html

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...llions-report/

Although in coming decades, Cleveland and other Great Lakes cities likely will become havens for man-made climate change migrants, I find the prospect appalling, not comforting, especially as I well know that Cleveland and the Great Lakes themselves will not escape great degradation, and that federal dollars will be wasted in fruitless recovery efforts in the most impacted regions of the country.

Last edited by WRnative; 09-20-2018 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:47 PM
 
Location: CA
1,009 posts, read 1,146,324 times
Reputation: 788
Thanks all! We watched the Browns win tonight! That was so fun!
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:14 PM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,915,130 times
Reputation: 8743
Quote:
Originally Posted by HueysBack View Post
Beyond the endless contention and self-aggrandizement, Larry, what is your take on the article in the OP of this thread? About the current and future livability of "heat belt" cities? Many in this thread, myself included, are under the impression that those cities are going to trend a lot "less livable" in the coming years (decades).

I assume (by your unsolicited list of book recommendations and the posting of your website) you share in agreement with both Pinker and other neo-liberals that, "Things are great and always getting better! Buy, buy, buy!"

Mr. Pinker's book proves that numbers can deceive even the smartest among us. His book is fundamentally flawed on multiple levels. First and foremost, he gets completely drunk on the aggregate data and makes grandiose (over-simplified) conclusions from it. What appears as Science - in the form of statements followed by charts and statistics - is simple hyperbole and conflation of fact. The data is used to tell a story that does not agree with the common senses of any history department.

Secondly, to the point of philosophy, he shows a lack of understanding about the very "Enlightenment" he grounds the book. My editions of The Social Contract and The Wealth of Nations must be different than his.

A far better critique on Pinker's book: https://www.thenation.com/article/wa...enlightenment/

Back to you though. What is your hot take on the original article?
I am not sure why you care about my opinion of the original article given what you've said about me. However, I think that Sun Belt cities and tropical areas around the world are dependent on cheap energy for air conditioning and if that changes or if temperatures rise significantly, the Midwest and other more temperate areas will become much more physically and economically attractive. That is what adapting to climate change means. In other words, I agree with the article.
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