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BJimmy, all I was saying was that the Van Aken District and Shaker Square are not "sleepy". Both are comparably busy to the Cleveland Heights business districts.
I agree that VAD is kind of separate feeling from the fabric of the surrounding neighborhoods, with the the possible exception of the Winslow Road district. Chagrin, Van Aken Blvd, and Warrensville create significant borders that make it feel just outside of the neighboring areas, even though it's a very short walk.
I don't think it's fair to compare it to the stereotypical suburban "lifestyle centers" though. All of the restaurants and stores are local or very small chains. The only similarity to places like Legacy Village or Pinecrest is that it was all developed at one time and is owned by one company.
I really don't understand the WASPy comment at all. Shaker is like literally half non-white or Jewish. I wonder if a lot of your opinions on Shaker stem from living near the wealthy northern part? OP wouldn't be living in that area.
So... you're correct in your assessment about north of Mayfield. Safety wise, not really an issue. In fact, between Taylor and Lee, north of Mayfield and closer to Forest Hill Park, is a beautiful tree heavy neighborhood. But you are butting up against East Cleveland which is still struggling with deep poverty.
If you're looking for cheap houses with lower taxes in semi-hip cool upcoming areas I'd second the North Collinwood area. Lots of walkable areas and the Euclid Beach Park is actually really nice! Again, a bit rough and still struggling with poverty related issues.
If it were me, I'd still choose CH. If you can stomach the taxes, living somewhere between Mayfield and Cedar and Coventry and Lee would be awesome! Like this house: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...5_zm/2_p/1_fr/
I'm trying to research taxes comparing SH to CH... but I think because of the minutia of taxes and how they're sometimes split online ("the portion of property tax that goes to the school district is $x per $100,000 home"), I'm having a hard time figuring out how they stack up. Are SH and CH taxes all the same, or very similar? Does CH double tax income if you work out of the city as well? ... Would a realtor familiar with the area be able to give me more in depth tax info? Was hoping to go to a few open houses and speak to some realtors in the areas I'm interested in when I go, so maybe I can hold my Qs till then.
You can use the RITA Website to compare taxes. Income taxes for CH and SH are identical. You will also likely pay taxes wherever you work. If you wind up working in the same municipality that you reside in, then you'll save a little on taxes that way.
You can use the RITA Website to compare taxes. Income taxes for CH and SH are identical. You will also likely pay taxes wherever you work. If you wind up working in the same municipality that you reside in, then you'll save a little on taxes that way.
CH is 3.8% of market value.
SH is 3.97% of market value.
Awesome link, thank you! I don't think we have separate income taxes for work v where you live in Southern California so this is all new to me, haven't had to factor that in before.
BJimmy, all I was saying was that the Van Aken District and Shaker Square are not "sleepy". Both are comparably busy to the Cleveland Heights business districts.
I agree that VAD is kind of separate feeling from the fabric of the surrounding neighborhoods, with the the possible exception of the Winslow Road district. Chagrin, Van Aken Blvd, and Warrensville create significant borders that make it feel just outside of the neighboring areas, even though it's a very short walk.
I don't think it's fair to compare it to the stereotypical suburban "lifestyle centers" though. All of the restaurants and stores are local or very small chains. The only similarity to places like Legacy Village or Pinecrest is that it was all developed at one time and is owned by one company.
I really don't understand the WASPy comment at all. Shaker is like literally half non-white or Jewish. I wonder if a lot of your opinions on Shaker stem from living near the wealthy northern part? OP wouldn't be living in that area.
I was actually thinking that Van Aken was similar to Assembly in Boston, only smaller and more locally oriented. https://assemblyrow.com/
Interesting. Assembly Row looks very similar: both the website and some of the buildings... Now if VAD could get a sizable, quality hotel, like Assembly Row apparently has, VAD would really be bangin'...
Sorry all, kind of jumping topics from west side to east side to taxes ...
I'm putting together a list of things to do while there, and am splitting it between downtown (touristy stuff), and then I wan to put together a list for each suburb / area.
Does anyone have restaurant, event, or location recommendations for Lakewood, Cleveland Heights, or Shaker Heights? (Trying not to cram in too much stuff since I'm only there 5 days.) Looking for things that will give me a feel for the area. I want to walk Cedar and Lee and near Coventry in CH, for example, but if anyone has a restaurant around there they really like or input on a local spot to visit I'd really appreciate it!
See what I have so far for downtown in attached pic... haven't started to go through restaurants yet (I won't do all of these things obviously... just want a list of things to choose from before I go)
Last edited by responsiblestranger; 06-10-2019 at 03:03 PM..
Reason: clarification
OP, you already realize that you need to spend time in the various Northeast Ohio communities and neighborhoods that interest you; you can then form your own opinions based on first-hand experience. This is the best way.
As for the comparison between Van Aken District and Assembly Row, they are actually quite different.
First key difference is the physical relationship between each district and its surrounding neighborhoods. Assembly Row is wedged between the Mystic River (north), Interstate 93 (south), heavy rail tracks (east) and Fellsway (west). You might live within the development itself but you cannot easily access it from surrounding areas of Somerville or the Greater Boston area unless you travel the T to Assembly Station or drive. On the other hand, the Van Aken District includes both existing neighborhoods of Shaker Heights and the former Van Aken Center redevelopment site. There has been a concerted effort to increase access between the first phase of the VAD (just built) and both future phases and existing neighborhoods (Thornton Park, Sussex, Winslow Road, Van Aken and Warrensville Center).
It is critical to keep in mind that VAD is much larger than the new construction in which retail stores and restaurants are now open. The VAD also includes areas along Warrensville Center Road as far north as the Thornton Park west entrance and as far south as the Post Office. The VAD also includes areas along Chagrin Boulevard as far west as the newer Chagrin Townhomes and as far east as the Beachwood/Shaker border. All of the new development forthcoming in that area (e.g. multi-story residential along Farnsleigh Road, multi-story residential on the former Qua Buick site, mid-rise commercial office towers at Chagrin/Warrensville, the redevelopment of Shaker Plaza, Shaker Rocks, the new Wendy's and vacant lots south of Wendy's) are also part of the VAD.
John Ratner has maintained that the RMS (developer) vision was for Van Aken to serve as "Shaker's Living Room" and weave those existing neighborhoods with the redeveloped core into a cohesive community center accessible by foot, bicycle, rapid transit or car. A considerable amount of infrastructure retrofit (e.g. redesign of Chagrin/Warrensville/Van Aken/Northfield intersection, redesign of Van Aken/Farnsleigh intersection, redesign of transit waiting environments for both end-of-line RTA bus bays and Farnsleigh Road RTA Station) has already taken place; there is more to come (Warrensville Center Road bike/ped path, Warrensville Center Road RTA Station redevelopment). The design is not perfect, but it is a much more blended development area than Assembly Row.
Second key difference is the nature of land uses and services within each development: Assembly is largely national chain stores with big-box retail and large surface parking lots along the eastern edge. VAD, on the other hand, is primarily populated with local or unique stores, particularly stores founded in Northeast Ohio (Mitchell's, Whiskey Grade, Brassica, Luster, Oasis) or the Great Lakes (Shinola). Even national chain stores like Bonobos and See are very "human-scaled" and not "car-scaled." This means the VAD store scale is not focused on a large regional draw via the highway/freeway network, which is the scale and market focus of developments like Legacy Village, Pinecrest and Crocker Park. The connection to existing neighborhoods and employment centers like Tower East and UH, along with additional development to increase the number of residents and workers within the VAD, is necessary to provide a critical mass. This critical mass of customers within walking distance ensures the VAD does not have to rely as heavily on driving customers for businesses to sustain themselves.
OP, I am a resident of VAD in the Thornton Park neighborhood; moved here in January 2104 in anticipation of this project. I am happy to discuss further its direction or broader issues related to Northeast Ohio neighborhoods and communities with you if you think that would be helpful. My academic background, career and certification are in urban and regional planning.
OP, you already realize that you need to spend time in the various Northeast Ohio communities and neighborhoods that interest you; you can then form your own opinions based on first-hand experience. This is the best way.
As for the comparison between Van Aken District and Assembly Row, they are actually quite different.
First key difference is the physical relationship between each district and its surrounding neighborhoods. Assembly Row is wedged between the Mystic River (north), Interstate 93 (south), heavy rail tracks (east) and Fellsway (west). You might live within the development itself but you cannot easily access it from surrounding areas of Somerville or the Greater Boston area unless you travel the T to Assembly Station or drive. On the other hand, the Van Aken District includes both existing neighborhoods of Shaker Heights and the former Van Aken Center redevelopment site. There has been a concerted effort to increase access between the first phase of the VAD (just built) and both future phases and existing neighborhoods (Thornton Park, Sussex, Winslow Road, Van Aken and Warrensville Center).
It is critical to keep in mind that VAD is much larger than the new construction in which retail stores and restaurants are now open. The VAD also includes areas along Warrensville Center Road as far north as the Thornton Park west entrance and as far south as the Post Office. The VAD also includes areas along Chagrin Boulevard as far west as the newer Chagrin Townhomes and as far east as the Beachwood/Shaker border. All of the new development forthcoming in that area (e.g. multi-story residential along Farnsleigh Road, multi-story residential on the former Qua Buick site, mid-rise commercial office towers at Chagrin/Warrensville, the redevelopment of Shaker Plaza, Shaker Rocks, the new Wendy's and vacant lots south of Wendy's) are also part of the VAD.
John Ratner has maintained that the RMS (developer) vision was for Van Aken to serve as "Shaker's Living Room" and weave those existing neighborhoods with the redeveloped core into a cohesive community center accessible by foot, bicycle, rapid transit or car. A considerable amount of infrastructure retrofit (e.g. redesign of Chagrin/Warrensville/Van Aken/Northfield intersection, redesign of Van Aken/Farnsleigh intersection, redesign of transit waiting environments for both end-of-line RTA bus bays and Farnsleigh Road RTA Station) has already taken place; there is more to come (Warrensville Center Road bike/ped path, Warrensville Center Road RTA Station redevelopment). The design is not perfect, but it is a much more blended development area than Assembly Row.
Second key difference is the nature of land uses and services within each development: Assembly is largely national chain stores with big-box retail and large surface parking lots along the eastern edge. VAD, on the other hand, is primarily populated with local or unique stores, particularly stores founded in Northeast Ohio (Mitchell's, Whiskey Grade, Brassica, Luster, Oasis) or the Great Lakes (Shinola). Even national chain stores like Bonobos and See are very "human-scaled" and not "car-scaled." This means the VAD store scale is not focused on a large regional draw via the highway/freeway network, which is the scale and market focus of developments like Legacy Village, Pinecrest and Crocker Park. The connection to existing neighborhoods and employment centers like Tower East and UH, along with additional development to increase the number of residents and workers within the VAD, is necessary to provide a critical mass. This critical mass of customers within walking distance ensures the VAD does not have to rely as heavily on driving customers for businesses to sustain themselves.
OP, I am a resident of VAD in the Thornton Park neighborhood; moved here in January 2104 in anticipation of this project. I am happy to discuss further its direction or broader issues related to Northeast Ohio neighborhoods and communities with you if you think that would be helpful. My academic background, career and certification are in urban and regional planning.
Good luck with your move!
Thanks for your insight! Yes, planning to visit areas I've discussed on here when I visit in July and December. Actually just extended my trip because I want to make sure I have enough time to explore each suburb fully. I'm looking more for areas I can rule out, since right now I live in a very safe suburb where people leave their doors unlocked and I walk/run alone at night.
I'm not familiar with the Assembly Row area, a quick google search and I think it's in Somerville, Ohio? Little too far south for me. (Not sure if others were talking about it on the thread.)
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Van Aken District
