03-11-2009, 07:01 AM
223 posts, read
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03-11-2009, 01:49 PM
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How far our sensibilities are from those
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OhioUberAlles
WRONG!IF
If we were true to Deuteronomy 22, then only raping virgins who were promised for marriage, out in the country, where, presumably, no one could hear her scream, would require execution. Otherwise, you must assume she did not scream for help and hence, you must execute them both.
I wonder how they would have felt about young girls frolicking about in tight blue jeans
Having sex with a virgin, who is not promised for marriage, would require marriage, as well as a fine paid to the virgin's father.
That's one motive to marry your daughters off young or, watch them like a hawk!
If a girl claims to be a virgin and her husband discovers she is not, then her penalty is execution. Of course, if his claim is false, then he must pay a fine and be "chastised" by the elders of the city. Still, they are to remain married.
That made them both think twice! (and save the sheets from her wedding night!)
If a man commits adultery, then he and the woman he commits it with, are to be executed.
I wonder how many Baby Boomers would get it for this one!
If a man has sex with a virgin, presumably consensual, who is engaged to be married, then they are BOTH to be executed.
Brings new meaning to the word, "engaged."
Hence, Deuteronomy 22 appears to be concerned with a girl's consent as we've come to view consent, only in so much as it bears on her guilt in the extreme. In other words, if a promised virgin has sex with anyone, besides her husband, who was chosen for her by her father, then the presumption is, she is guilty as well and she should be executed. They had cities in those days and they had walls too. So, the burden on her to avoid temptation, luring behavior, dangerous situations and finally, to cry for help is immense. Moreover, there is an implicit acceptance, that an innocent girl could be executed and that it was worth the cost, in order to preserve chastity and order, based on arranged marriages, in the community.
03-11-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rockmysawks
Funny how those "old dudes" just go around shooting up young guys and guns seem to spontaneously erupt in the strangest places
03-11-2009, 06:09 PM
Location: Cleveland
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03-11-2009, 10:40 PM
Location: Ohio
1,009 posts, read
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Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chef Boyardee
If we were true to Deuteronomy 22, then only raping virgins who were promised for marriage, out in the country, where, presumably, no one could hear her scream, would require execution. Otherwise, you must assume she did not scream for help and hence, you must execute them both.
I wonder how they would have felt about young girls frolicking about in tight blue jeans
Having sex with a virgin, who is not promised for marriage, would require marriage, as well as a fine paid to the virgin's father.
That's one motive to marry your daughters off young or, watch them like a hawk!
If a girl claims to be a virgin and her husband discovers she is not, then her penalty is execution. Of course, if his claim is false, then he must pay a fine and be "chastised" by the elders of the city. Still, they are to remain married.
That made them both think twice! (and save the sheets from her wedding night!)
If a man commits adultery, then he and the woman he commits it with, are to be executed.
I wonder how many Baby Boomers would get it for this one!
If a man has sex with a virgin, presumably consensual, who is engaged to be married, then they are BOTH to be executed.
Brings new meaning to the word, "engaged."
Hence, Deuteronomy 22 appears to be concerned with a girl's consent as we've come to view consent, only in so much as it bears on her guilt in the extreme. In other words, if a promised virgin has sex with anyone, besides her husband, who was chosen for her by her father, then the presumption is, she is guilty as well and she should be executed. They had cities in those days and they had walls too. So, the burden on her to avoid temptation, luring behavior, dangerous situations and finally, to cry for help is immense. Moreover, there is an implicit acceptance, that an innocent girl could be executed and that it was worth the cost, in order to preserve chastity and order, based on arranged marriages, in the community.
There was no need to describe in detail what Deut 22 says, I'm well aware of the chapter. For that matter I'm well aware of the entire book of Deuteronomy. For that matter I'm well aware of basically the entire Bible.
You are accurate in some regards but wrong in others, likely due to your lack of knowledge of Hebrew.
When you presume that a man has sex with a virgin, consensually, you are correct in the presumption but the implication you made by including presumably was a bit unnecessary. If you read it in the Hebrew you'll see that Deut 22 basically doesn't say a man can rape an unbethrothed woman and thus be able to marry her. It says if a man seduces/lies with/knows, an unbethrothed woman, he has to marry her. A woman is not obligated to marry a rapist.
Also I believe the logic behind stoning a woman to death if she claims she was raped but did not resist is that it is possible she is merely lying about being raped to cover for the fact that she may very well have been cheating on her husband. That's a case where the wronged party would make the call (the husband).
As for having sex with a virgin hoping you will be able to marry her, if the father doesn't approve of you you're basically dead, since you cannot restore the girl's virginity and you've made it considerably difficult for her to be able to marry, at least to be able to marry anybody of quality. So if you just jump the gun, have sex with a young virgin, and her father thinks you're a crud, he is in his rights to have you put to death.
03-11-2009, 10:41 PM
Location: Ohio
1,009 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chef Boyardee
If we were true to Deuteronomy 22, then only raping virgins who were promised for marriage, out in the country, where, presumably, no one could hear her scream, would require execution. Otherwise, you must assume she did not scream for help and hence, you must execute them both.
I wonder how they would have felt about young girls frolicking about in tight blue jeans
It's also a capital offense to have any sort of sexual interactions with another man's wife.
03-11-2009, 10:42 PM
Location: Ohio
1,009 posts, read
874,955 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chef Boyardee
If we were true to Deuteronomy 22, then only raping virgins who were promised for marriage, out in the country, where, presumably, no one could hear her scream, would require execution. Otherwise, you must assume she did not scream for help and hence, you must execute them both.
I wonder how they would have felt about young girls frolicking about in tight blue jeans
Blue jeans are definitely men's clothing... Let us consult Deut 22 on one of a number of clothing regulations for men and women...
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
03-12-2009, 03:24 AM
Location: ABQ
3,771 posts, read
7,092,439 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OhioUberAlles
Blue jeans are definitely men's clothing... Let us consult Deut 22 on one of a number of clothing regulations for men and women...The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
I think I can sneak for most rational people on this board when I say that in modern times, the Bible should have absolutely nothing to do with how we decide our business. I am not even sure how a conversation went this in depth as it pertains to the Bible's place in society. In case you were wondering, it doesn't have a place. If there was any confusion however, it certainly shouldn't have a place. It is my contention that American society is as violent as it is because a book, which no adjective best describing it more than 'filthy' is so regarded and heralded. To me, it is embarassing that these oftentimes violent accounts of human mistreatment is actually looked up to by our society.
03-12-2009, 03:43 AM
Location: Ohio
1,009 posts, read
874,955 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puddy4LyF
I think I can sneak for most rational people on this board when I say that in modern times, the Bible should have absolutely nothing to do with how we decide our business. I am not even sure how a conversation went this in depth as it pertains to the Bible's place in society. In case you were wondering, it doesn't have a place. If there was any confusion however, it certainly shouldn't have a place. It is my contention that American society is as violent as it is because a book, which no adjective best describing it more than 'filthy' is so regarded and heralded. To me, it is embarassing that these oftentimes violent accounts of human mistreatment is actually looked up to by our society.
I hope you don't live in my state.
03-12-2009, 04:28 AM
Location: northeast
567 posts, read
1,446,027 times
Reputation: 147
if the bible was law we would be living under a dictatorship and be stoned and killed for every little thing we do. we would be forced to read the bible until we die of boredom. people would have NO rights and we would live like barbarians. millions of people would be killed for working on the "sabbath" day. it would be crazy! what sane person would want to live like the biblical days, when it was ok to marry kids(and still is in the middle east), have a whole town stone you for doing petty *****, and everyone was poor except law makers. imagine how the world would be!!
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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