Parma- is it safe... for minorities?

[McPierogiPazza]

Just moved back to the area after nearly twenty years on the East Coast, mostly in DC. Parma has indeed changed some, and I now see black folks in places I never did as a kid in the 70s and 80s, like the library, corner bars, diners. In other words, more than the mall (which, sorry to say, is about a third empty now). I've had people from around the Cleveland area who are black say they like Parma, which blows me away since the federal lawsuit against the city for housing discrimination in the 70s was much deserved. I used to have friends who are black tell me that they were afraid of coming here or who got harassed when they did -- and these are well dressed, educated, polite people who'd never bother a soul.

I'm happy to see some change here, though there's still a ways to go. My nephew's grade school still only has a few black students, which is up from the zero number when I went there. My stepmother gets an earful of racism, anti-Semitism and bigotry at her job here in Parma, so she doesn't tell her coworkers that she's Jewish (last name not a typically Jewish one). My dad hears real nonsense in local diners.

On a happier note, we do have Indian shops and restaurants, which is new for us. Must be the Hindu temple drawing folks this way. I'm enjoying that very much!

Parma grew from around 35000 in the early 50s to over 100000 in the early 70s because of the middleclass exodus from Cleveland, and white flight was part of that. That embarrassing city council president, Kuczma, had plenty of support. So there's nothing "natural" about how Parma ended up this white, or how the Cleveland area ended up so racially segregated.

[glenvillemike]

i dont live in parma but i am there a lot i consider it diverse i am black and although it may be mostly white for me that is not a problem i like parma enough to want to live there it all depends on the kind of person you are and how you project yourself the city does not have to be diverse i am

[luckyxstar11]

I haven't read through all of the posts in this thread so I don't know if this was mentioned, but one of the reasons that Parma is starting to gain a higher African American population is because a few years back the realtors got in trouble for not selling to other ethnicities to keep the area having less crime (not saying that's what causes it, just saying what happened). So now that they got in trouble for that, there is something called "white flight" happening in Parma. Look at how the city is set up. The more north you go (toward Brookpark Road) and you'll find more of the different ethnicities, and the more south you go toward North Royalton, you'll generally find more predominately white families still living in that area. I personally think in about 5-10 years that "white flight" thought will spread even further down and the area will become more run down. I mean, honestly, go to Parmatown mall and compare it to what it was 10 years ago. Look at the people you see in that place and tell me the area hasn't changed... Guarantee that mall will be closed in the coming years.

[marence]

Bathingape, I'm glad you're not having problems in Parma. I graduated from the Parma School System back in the dark ages (the 70s) and saw nothing but racism from people in the area; I guess being forced by the courts to be open to other races moving in has helped.

[lisa12230]

I'll stick to the east surburbs thank you, lol.........Don't wish to go back to memory lane.....

[ak_47_00]

Parma is safe if you're the minority. I swear there are not enough Italians and Hungarians here...

The drivers are horrible and get mad at you for something they've caused. I'd rather drive in western PA. That's sad.

This (to me) is the least bike friendly city ever. Sidewalks are rough and narrow (often crowded) in Parma as well.

[LuvOrlando]

Parma has more minorities all the time. Lots of older people there are still very racist, but the city is changing.

It is also going downhill.

I wouldn't move there. I'd rather live in Lakewood than Parma.

Originally Posted by marence

Bathingape, I'm glad you're not having problems in Parma. I graduated from the Parma School System back in the dark ages (the 70s) and saw nothing but racism from people in the area; I guess being forced by the courts to be open to other races moving in has helped.

They weren't forced to allow other races to live there.

They were forced to have more welfare housing. It brought in a bunch of loud, obnoxious people of various races. And it did the city no good.

The mall went down the tubes, but they re-did it and brought the cops in to restore order. It's a fine mall again, but everyone stopped going there when it got bad...and they never really returned. That might also have a little to do with Internet shopping, but the stigma of "bad mall" continued to plague Parmatown even after they attempted to clean it up.

[ParmaResident715]

Originally Posted by luckyxstar11

I haven't read through all of the posts in this thread so I don't know if this was mentioned, but one of the reasons that Parma is starting to gain a higher African American population is because a few years back the realtors got in trouble for not selling to other ethnicities to keep the area having less crime (not saying that's what causes it, just saying what happened). So now that they got in trouble for that, there is something called "white flight" happening in Parma. Look at how the city is set up. The more north you go (toward Brookpark Road) and you'll find more of the different ethnicities, and the more south you go toward North Royalton, you'll generally find more predominately white families still living in that area. I personally think in about 5-10 years that "white flight" thought will spread even further down and the area will become more run down. I mean, honestly, go to Parmatown mall and compare it to what it was 10 years ago. Look at the people you see in that place and tell me the area hasn't changed... Guarantee that mall will be closed in the coming years.

Younger people of all ethnic backgrounds continue to move into Parma - north, south, east, and west. Many foreign born Eastern European immigrants are also moving to Parma, particularly Ukrainians.

Today, I don't think the term "white flight" is at all relevant to Parma or any other suburb in the Cleveland area as it involves large-scale migration out of an area. The "white flight" that occurred took place nearly half a century ago. No such thing is occurring today anywhere in the Greater Cleveland area. Though the average family size has been shrinking in Parma and the US generally, the ethnic makeup of most Cleveland area cities these days is relatively stable with only incremental changes. Whites are also moving into Parma, particularly those between 22-34. Those between the ages of 35-44 are moving out, likely due to changing preferences as they would in any other city. The income level for younger people in the Polish Village, Ukrainian Village, and Ridgewood Circle areas is generally higher than Parma's city-wide median household income. Those aged 65+ have the lowest level of income and make up a smaller share (about 10%) of these neighborhoods that continue to attract higher earning young adults. Though some parts look worn, everything north of Day Drive largely appears to be improving, not declining.

As for Parmatown, after more than 57 years, it still remains open. It was recently purchased and is being redeveloped into an attractively landscaped, pedestrian-friendly main-street shopping district that will supposedly be a mix between Crocker Park and Westgate. Walmart will be disconnected from the other shopping areas and six new outbuildings are slated for construction along W Ridgewood. To me and most Parma residents I've spoken with, it seems things are definitely improving and the city is on the upswing once again.

[PA Yankee]

My experiences in Parma (it's been a few years) is that racial feelings are alive and well (on all sides, not just whites). However, no one is going to go out of their way to give you a hard time, just mind your own business and don't be causing trouble and you'll be left alone. Racism will never go away, but so long as acts of violence aren't occurring, it really isn't a problem. Concerns with ghetto influences (drugs, violent crime, illegitimacy, rap-culture, etc...) are more prevalent than truly racially-based tension. I know hard-working black families that spend a lot of time in Parma and have *never* had a problem because their kids are clean-cut and don't have their pants hanging of their rear, etc... Cultural conflict between the inner city and blue-collar suburbs is more reflective of the current situation than race tension.

Just my impressions, make of it what you will

[ess.ess.ess.esq.]

My goodness, the people of China and japan must be utterly MISERABLE living in countries that are almost 100% Chinese or japanese! They must just drag themselves through each day, desperately despondent at knowing that they will not see even ONE Caucasian or African face that entire day!!! Seriously, people. As an inner city resident, i resent the notion that i must be miserable if i have to be around MY OWN PEOPLE...and resent the notion that I pine for the company of the paleface....there is no one more patronizing and obnoxious than a white Liberal...as for the brother worried about Parma....let's put it this way, a white boy venturing down Euclid Avenue on foot in broad daylight in East Cleveland has a rather small % chance of getting to the Euclid border....while a brother may walk around Parma at midnight with impunity and be far safer there than that brother would be on the streets of East Cleveland. My advice is that you will be MUCH more comfortable if you relocate to Cleveland Heights....with equal numbers of blacks and white liberals...