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I get a little frustrated when people draw broad and derisive conclusions about my profession; and that so many of you are willing to discard the entire industry over a few bad actors.
Why is no one criticizing the colleges/universities for their deceptive recruitment practices related to college football and the NCAA? Should we get rid of all college sports because of a few bad actors in college football?
The stats show the entire for-profit industry is tainted, not just a few "bad actors". I'm not saying we should get rid of for-profits, they have a right to do business. I'm just saying I believe they prey on the weak and ignorant, offer little in the way of education, and they shouldn't profit off of federal dollars.
I will gladly discuss college sports in the Sports Forum as it's unrelated to this discussion.
I get a little frustrated when people draw broad and derisive conclusions about my profession; and that so many of you are willing to discard the entire industry over a few bad actors.
Don't take it personal. I understand that it is your income and you are going to defend that which pays your check. I work in a industry that has to defend it self all the time, except it costs us billions and billions to research something that ends up in a bottle for $3 generic at walmart.
What I fail to understand is why it costs $14,000 for a course that is offered at a community college for $500? Does it cost millions/billions to come up with the curriculum? How can you defend this? Aside from that people pay for it.
Don't take it personal. I understand that it is your income and you are going to defend that which pays your check. I work in a industry that has to defend it self all the time, except it costs us billions and billions to research something that ends up in a bottle for $3 generic at walmart.
What I fail to understand is why it costs $14,000 for a course that is offered at a community college for $500? Does it cost millions/billions to come up with the curriculum? How can you defend this? Aside from that people pay for it.
I do believe that tuition is way too high, but that goes for all higher education institutions. With the recent gainful employment DoED rule, I am hoping that some institutions will get the message and reduce the programs costs and how much they charge students.
Some programs in higher education have to charge more because it costs more to develop and maintain the programs. For example, the Culinary, Design, and Medical programs. Also, you may not be aware, but the community colleges and universities get large tax breaks at both the state and federal level to operate and therefore do not have to pass the costs onto the consumer.
Lastly, I don't mind the criticism of my industry; what I don't like are the broad generalizations and demonization.
For a lot of the medical support positions that don't involve bodily fluids, your big cost is only really the software, and then pay for an adjunct to cover your medical coding and billing classes, etc. Which works out to about $2K in pat for an adjunct teaching a 3 credit hour class down here.
Design is pretty similar in terms of costs, and state subsidies can't really explain the huge gap in tuition between a University of Central Florida and a Full Sail for programs that claim to send you toward the same career goal.
I wanted to start a new thread on the discussion of Higher Education in the RDU area. There seems to be consensus in this forum that the for-profit colleges and schools in the RDU area are inferior to the more traditional colleges and universities. Some have associated them with Diploma mills and others have suggested that they do not meet the standard for Higher Education.
Can someone provide me evidence that the for-profit colleges and schools in the RDU area are of a lesser quality than the state run or private institutions in the area?
As someone who works at one of the private institutions in the RDU area...lets go back to the original question posed...
The question should be "Is there evidence that for profit "colleges" like DeVry, U of P, Strayer, etc provide education of equal or greater quality than the education provided by Duke, UNC, NC State, etc"
Clearly the answer is NO...emphatically NO
Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary...would love to see it...
Specifically....similarly stringent entrance requirements, accreditation requirements, graduation and employment rates, median income of graduates, rate of acceptance into graduate programs...
Pick the measure....I absolutely guarantee the "for profits" will fall, far, far short in any measure of "quality".
Don't ask people to prove a negative...
If you are so certain that "for profits" are being demonized then you need to show there is reason to believe the quality of education is equal
For a lot of the medical support positions that don't involve bodily fluids, your big cost is only really the software, and then pay for an adjunct to cover your medical coding and billing classes, etc. Which works out to about $2K in pat for an adjunct teaching a 3 credit hour class down here.
Design is pretty similar in terms of costs, and state subsidies can't really explain the huge gap in tuition between a University of Central Florida and a Full Sail for programs that claim to send you toward the same career goal.
You seem somewhat knowledgeable about these programs...do you also work in the for-profit industry? It's okay...don't be ashamed...there are support groups to help you with the coming out process.
The legislation that just passed is just the first step in what will cripple the for-profit industry. Just wait till graduation rates are broken down by type of school. At some point the foolish people they prey on will realize they are subjecting themselves to a life of debt for a pretty useless degree.
Sure there are small examples where these people offer continuing eduction and maybe some classes to sit for some sort of exam. Those examples are pretty small compared to the rest.
Now that a college degree doesn't guarantee you a job it's going to be more and more important where that degree came from.
As someone who works at one of the private institutions in the RDU area...lets go back to the original question posed...
The question should be "Is there evidence that for profit "colleges" like DeVry, U of P, Strayer, etc provide education of equal or greater quality than the education provided by Duke, UNC, NC State, etc"
Clearly the answer is NO...emphatically NO
Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary...would love to see it...
Specifically....similarly stringent entrance requirements, accreditation requirements, graduation and employment rates, median income of graduates, rate of acceptance into graduate programs...
Pick the measure....I absolutely guarantee the "for profits" will fall, far, far short in any measure of "quality".
Don't ask people to prove a negative...
If you are so certain that "for profits" are being demonized then you need to show there is reason to believe the quality of education is equal
Good luck with that.....
Ok...how about you start your own thread and ask that question.
I am sticking to my original question. Considering there are so many claiming that for-profits offer an inferior product, it is only appropriate that someone provide evidence to support this claim.
To your indicators. How are entrance requirements related to the quality of a program?
...accreditation does not gurantee quality.
...employment rates speak to the prestige of a program/institution, but not necessarily the quality.
...median income...don't see the connection to quality of programs.
...rate of acceptance into grad programs...once again, prestige and name of program, not necessarily the quality.
Last edited by csbjornstad; 06-06-2011 at 04:44 PM..
Ok...how about you start your own thread and ask that question.
I am sticking to my original question. Considering there are so many claiming that for-profits offer an inferior product, it is only appropriate that someone provide evidence to support this claim.
To your indicators. How are entrance requirements related to the quality of a program?
...accreditation does not gurantee quality.
...employment rates speak to the prestige of a program/institution, but not necessarily the quality.
...median income...don't see the connection to quality of programs.
...rate of acceptance into grad programs...once again, prestige and name of program, not necessarily the quality.
Ok...how about you start your own thread and ask that question.
I am sticking to my original question. Considering there are so many claiming that for-profits offer an inferior product, it is only appropriate that someone provide evidence to support this claim.
To your indicators. How are entrance requirements related to the quality of a program?
...accreditation does not gurantee quality.
...employment rates speak to the prestige of a program/institution, but not necessarily the quality.
...median income...don't see the connection to quality of programs.
...rate of acceptance into grad programs...once again, prestige and name of program, not necessarily the quality.
Seriously???
Ok Mr Impartial, YOU name ONE quality indicator you would like to use to compare the "quality of the product offered by for-profits vs traditional brick and mortar schools"
How would YOU judge the quality then?
Price per credit hour?? That would be pretty embarassing for you I think...
Graduation rate? Again, probably you don't want to go THERE....
Performance on GRE's and other Grad school exams by graduates of both "types" of institutions?? Probably could be done, willing to bet the house it wouldn't be pretty for proponents of "for-profits" (and other than employees of for-profits and "grads" of for-profits, who exactly ARE proponents of this misguided concept?)
I claim that "for-profits" offer a significantly inferior and terribly over priced product compared to state and private institutions, particularly in NC.
I don't need to "prove it"
YOU need to prove otherwise since yours is the more untenable and minority position.....
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