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I have mixed feelings on this - though I was a Greek at a larger university. It WAS a great way to meet people as a new freshman - kind of overwhelmed and not knowing where to start.
Definitely a lifesaver there. And there were the group study sessions and we were expected to maintain a certain GPA. I can't remember what.
Mainly the organization (fraternities and sororoities) liked to PARTY! Yes, we had our community service, etc but really it was all about the party. I grew tired of all the rules and regulations and conformity, etc and ended up leaving my sophomore year. Probably should never have lived in the sorority house either - just too many people around for my liking.
All in all, I don't regret my experience, we had a lot of fun. I'm not sure I would encourage my son to join. I'm not sure what purpose they would serve at the very tiny liberal arts colleges.
It's a mixed bag.
I essentially prohibited my children from joining fraternities. Unless they paid their own way. They somehow managed to have lots of fun without them. And obtained great education. I admit I prepared my kids from an early age to avoid organizations that you pay to join, pay to conform, pay for an image, and pay to exclude others.
I essentially prohibited my children from joining fraternities. Unless they paid their own way. They somehow managed to have lots of fun without them. And obtained great education. I admit I prepared my kids from an early age to avoid organizations that you pay to join, pay to conform, pay for an image, and pay to exclude others.
You make great points which obviously come from a well-rounded person who sees life without rose-colored glasses.
I went Greek in college. It was a stupid waste of time and money. If I had a kid in college who wanted to go Greek, I wouldn't give them one thin dime to pay for it.
They seem like more trouble then their worth. My college didn't have them. My two brothers, one also went to a college didn't have them, in fact the school charter prohibited them. My other brothers college did have them. They caused constant problems for the school, students and the people who lived in the neighborhood near campus. Frankly I don't know why that college was tolerating it after all the problems they were having with the Greek organizations.
They just seem like just another part of the many dumb things people do in college.
Most of the low GPA undergrads (to me, 3.2 is low) who did well in financial services type jobs did so because of glib personalities and appearance, and were hired by similarly shallow people.
I think you are looking at a requirement to maintain a 3.2 to mean that everyone had a 3.2. If I understand the post correctly 3.2 is the minimum GPA that was required.
I think you are underestimating how important social skills are in the business world. It's not shallow but rather the way business is done.
With record student debt levels and record unemployment among fresh college grads (worse than even during the Great Depression), society's views of colleges and universities needs to seriously change. We have to realize that a college degree is now useless unless you have a plan on how to use your college degree to make money when you graduate. 10 years ago, you could get a degree in General Studies or Creative Writing and get by while partying all through college, and still get a job when you graduate. These days? You'd never find a job and would default on your loans. Universities have a moral obligation to inform students of actual employment figures for their graduates of varying degree programs, and students need to wake up and realize that the economy isn't what it used to be, and that unless you keep your nose to the grindstone and work hard, you'll be destitute and dependent on others for the rest of your life. Greek systems thus need to be given a lower priority in this new economy. People who think any college degree is a free ride to a good career are deluding themselves... If a student simply wants to party for 4-5 years and then get a worthless degree, they are much better off forgetting about college and going the route of the plumber/carpenter/electrician.
With record student debt levels and record unemployment among fresh college grads (worse than even during the Great Depression), society's views of colleges and universities needs to seriously change. We have to realize that a college degree is now useless unless you have a plan on how to use your college degree to make money when you graduate. 10 years ago, you could get a degree in General Studies or Creative Writing and get by while partying all through college, and still get a job when you graduate. These days? You'd never find a job and would default on your loans. Universities have a moral obligation to inform students of actual employment figures for their graduates of varying degree programs, and students need to wake up and realize that the economy isn't what it used to be, and that unless you keep your nose to the grindstone and work hard, you'll be destitute and dependent on others for the rest of your life. Greek systems thus need to be given a lower priority in this new economy. People who think any college degree is a free ride to a good career are deluding themselves... If a student simply wants to party for 4-5 years and then get a worthless degree, they are much better off forgetting about college and going the route of the plumber/carpenter/electrician.
Creative writing is actually quite rigorous/career-applicable if you enroll in a good program. I wouldn't recommend doing it in place of a professional degree, but if you can manage to double in business or engineering and nonfiction, you'll develop an outstanding skill set by the time you graduate.
I also think the correlation between Greek membership and professional success is slightly higher than zero. I know Greeks who have done very well post-graduation, and I know Greeks who are still living in their parents' basements. I just don't think there's any relation.
Yeah, WE'VE hired CPAs and PEs. That's cool if they're talking to CPAs and PEs during the interview. They shouldn't be talking to you, being that you don't have the wherewithal to judge their relative merits.
Your post how NON-GREEKS from the Ivys apply to YOU, an apparently self-important Big 10 sorority girl, as in "oh, please, give me a job" was what I found off-putting.
Considering I founded a successful engineering co. and use my "sorority girl" skills to drum up the business, and pay everyone's salaries/benefits, I, in fact, do have the wherewithal to judge the merits of my own employees. I have been on the CD business forum for years talking about my experiences in running and financing my businesses. Maybe I am a dumb blond "sorority girl," but I tend to be a quick study and learn from my mistakes.
I could care less if you're limited experience and stereotypes (sexism?) makes me "off-putting" to you as a "sorority girl." I have learned to capitalize on the weakness of others underestimating me. You sound like just another bitter worker pontificating on what he thinks "the rules" are for being successful in the world. Because you learn all the rules in business school. Right? Here's a tip: there are no set rules on who is allowed to hire whom and what skills they want.
Your attitude is a dime a dozen, which is why there are so few successful self-made people out there. Though there are many going into massive debt for a "prestigious" MBA so they can be someone else's mid-level manager, have little control over their schedule, all the while striving for the rare exec. positions/stock options before midlife burn out or before the value plummets. Is that the path you are on?
I have also met plenty of "Greek" students, from average Big 10 schools, who have used their social skills to found some very successful businesses that give them control and freedom over their own lives. And plenty of these business owners are the professional engineers and/or accountants you speak of. But I do understand it may be hard for you to grasp (emotionally accept?) that the socially adept frat boys and sorority girls you despise could also be the technically strong CPA's, professional engineers, and business leaders.
I believe the real world rewards technical expertise combined with strong social/leadership skills ("backslapping" to Robert) and confidence ("self-importance" to Robert). The Greek system can be a great training ground for these skills. Robert seems to disagree with my assessment.
My advice to anyone on this thread looking to become successful in the business world today: Have a strong mix of technical expertise and social acumen, strengthen your leadership skills, be flexible, creative, positive, confident, and open-minded. Follow your instincts (hard to teach in MBA programs). Take risks and do not limit yourself or your thinking to what "the rules" are - basically, do exactly the opposite of what Roberpolyglot recommends in his threads.
My school (University of Minnesota) had a Greek system, but I don't think many students participated (lowest numbers in the Big 10, I've heard). The houses were visible, and you noticed them during their pledge week and at homecoming time, and some of the local stores sold all the related gear, but they didn't dominate the social scene or anything. I think that seemed like the ideal scenario; it's there for anyone who wants to participate, but it by no means dominated the school, either.
As to whether or not fraternities and sororities should exist, I have a tough time with the idea of banning them. I admit that I've never really understood the appeal, but college students are adults and should be able to make decisions for themselves. If a group of students wants to band together in a sorority or fraternity, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it? As a parent I'd never pay for it (again, they are adults... if they want to go Greek, they can pay for it themselves), but do have a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to anything that seems like people yet again lowering their expectations and treating college students as kids.
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