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True, at the UW they're pretty much a fringe phenom. I'm curious, being originally from Berkeley myself, how has the Greek system there fared? I never heard about any scandals, but you'd think Greeks might have been harassed during Berkeley's radical phase. What is their status there these days?
Berkeley has them, but they are not a prerequisite to having a good time on campus, as far as I've been told by recent grads I've known. Let's face it. While it may not be wild like it once was, it is still not a hotbed of conformity ... not being an 8+/- stop subway ride from San Francisco's stations under Market Street.
(Ruth, you'll love this. Around exit 122 on I-5 south of Tacoma, there is an exit called Berkeley Street. For years, I would drive past it and see it signposted as Berkley Street. One day, I noticed they had spelled it correctly by changing the signs).
Bunch of idiots and their stereotypes on this thread, probably the same people who use the line " I wish people would give me a chance, I'm really nice once you get to know me". Losers are always the most judgmental people.
It's not really about that.
When I wrapped up freshman year, one of my high school friends, totally unremarkable in every way except for pretty good grades at a good high school, had to show me his "Hell Night" clothes for the culmination of his fraternity rush. The jeans and the shirt were in disgusting shape. I asked him where they had been taken. As it should be, he maintained the secrecy and did not tell me. My guess is that they were made to crawl through sewers, or some such place, that had fecal matter. I thought that this was a really high price to "buy" friends, which he otherwise wouldn't have had many of.
The guy was a through and through jerk, and the fact that someone quasi-beta made it into this fraternity, took his attention away from school and into socializing. We didn't particularly get along. His arrogance got annoying that I finally told him he was "a token (insert name of fraternity)." His final GPA was lackluster. At the end of it, he was denied admission, or wait-listed, to the professional school of his choice. An influential family member with alumni ties, and maybe even the same fraternity membership, must have stepped in. Friend is admitted and goes to professional school. Half the guys in his fraternity were Scott Peterson clones, a Southern California native son! While I don't know if Scott was in a fraternity at Cal Poly SLO, I do know he perfected his glibness waiting on tables, probably wearing a Polynesian shirt, and that he then golfed and sold fertilizer.
My working class parents didn't have that kind of pull. I believed in "closing down the library" the last 2 years, when I pretty much pulled straight As. I'm sure the Chicago chick on this thread would chide me for "working hard" instead of "working smart." So be it.
Yes, I have read my whole post. My responses to you are largely based on your arrogance on several posts. One in which you pride yourself in the fact that Ivy League grads come "begging" to you for a job, a Big 10 sorority girl. The other in which you pride yourself in the fact that engineers report to you, again, a Big 10 sorority girl. Sure, you might have 4 goetechs or something like that reporting to you. I really don't want to know. But I know you're not a PE. Any true licensed professional who is worth his/her salt would NOT relish reporting to you, or someone who doesn't have the same professional background. Take a look at any law firm's website. Their top brass is all lawyers. That's who the lawyers who aren't partners report to. They certainly don't report to the CFO, who may be a CPA. Stereotypes of advertising executives and investment bankers are usually fairly close to the mark.
How's your sorority sister in Chicagoland doing? The gorgeous one sitting in a mansion funded by her cheating husband, yet for whom no one is good enough? I'm judging you by the company you keep. People stereotype there, too.
Your posts are filled with stereotypes, assumptions, and now lies.... You just keep digging yourself deeper.
I never said any Ivy League grads were "begging" me for a job. I said they had "applied" for jobs at my company, so your quote was deceptively inaccurate (i.e. a lie). You have no info on my degrees, engineering field, P.E. licensing status as I never divulge this information on C-D. You just assume anyone from a Big 10 sorority/fraternity would not have the "wherewithal" to be a highly skilled engineer, just as you assume professionals on the airport concourse are so "phony" you need a "barf bag." I can tell you that it would be pretty difficult being a successful sales engineer in my field without first being a good engineer.
You seem to be fixated on what people do when they are 19 y.o. college students. As if being in a fraternity/sorority defines one's entire life career path. Time to get past that - people change and grow. Newflash: Being a "Greek" is really rather inconsequential to your career, other than it may help somewhat with networking at the beginning or provide another platform to practice social/philanthropic skills as a student.
Yes, my friend is smart and gorgeous and has high standards in a man. Thanks for asking. Not sure why it is pertinent to this thread or why you think it would bother me. Oh wait, does it bother you? And FTR, I met my friend 10 years after I graduated college so she was not my "sorority sister." I have no idea if she was in a sorority or had a cheating husband. I think you are remembering that she was a pretty college cheerleader and dates the successful men (the ones you think are "phonies" that make you "barf"). You knew a few details and just filled in the rest of her story with your stereotypes, just like you do with the bankers, airline passengers, frat boys, engineers....
You see what you want to see through your judgmental glasses. This is classic confirmation bias which provides an explanation for your belief system. Your reality is inaccurately interpreted to confirm your entrenched stereotypes about how people behave. You search for quick cues (e.g. how someone appears at an airport, whether someone was in a Big 10 fraternity, etc.) to confirm your (often inaccurate) categorization of a person.
This is why, in your head, a sorority girl cannot possibly also be a good engineer, an extroverted investment banker cannot also be technically brilliant with a high GPA, a highly skilled/certified P.E. can never be "phony" to you. Do you see where we're going with this? Do you think this line of thinking can possibly be problematic? Even a dangerous way of viewing the world? I find that the happiest, most successful people I know have very little confirmation bias as they are constantly open to new ideas and to what individual people can offer.
Your posts are filled with stereotypes, assumptions, and now lies.... You just keep digging yourself deeper.
Deeper to who? To you? This wasn't meant to be a dialogue between you and me. We are two people who would never "break bread." You'd be too worried about "slumming it" vis a vis your la-tee-dah social status, from what I can deduce. Stereotyping and streets smarts are useful. I do make quick judgments. It has served me well. I was able to avoid muggings while vacationing in Naples and Rio by sizing up a situation, unethical dentists, and then some.
I've seen two things:
1) the (negative) change in people after joining one, and
2) the fact that form over substance is often reflected in the membership
I wanted more input from other people on this thread, but it looks like it's sputtering. It's not a dialogue, so there's no need to convince me. I'm only responding to your comments coming from your didactic perch. I don't need to be handed a reading list, or a link. That's what extensive schooling was for. Been there, done that.
Here's one for you on stereotyping. One day, I was a little more suited up than usual. As I left the office to catch the train, I passed in front of the booth at the entrance to an urban parking deck. The attendant was standing outside and said to me "How'd stocks do today?" I told him "I'm not in that line of work," thinking to myself "not even close." That was based on his stereotyping of my appearance and apparel. While it may have been somewhat of a compliment, I thought to myself that this would have made me a superficial "back slapper," which didn't sit with me. So I'm NOT the only one that does it. And I'm sure the parking attendant, from seeing different people all day, isn't ignorant either.
Give it a rest. Next ...
Last edited by robertpolyglot; 09-05-2012 at 12:32 PM..
Deeper to who? To you? This wasn't meant to be a dialogue between you and me. We are two people who would never "break bread." You'd be too worried about "slumming it" vis a vis your la-tee-dah social status, from what I can deduce.
I've seen two things:
1) the (negative) change in people after joining one, and
2) the fact that form over substance is often reflected in the membership
I wanted more input from other people on this thread, but it looks like it's sputtering. It's not a dialogue, so there's no need to convince me. I'm only responding to your comments coming from your didactic perch. I don't need to be handed a reading list, or a link. That's what extensive schooling was for. Been there, done that.
Next ...
Surprise, you can now "deduce" my "la-tee-dah social status." Did my font choice give it away? You are just so intuitive about one's social status, degrees, skill, phoniness levels, etc. FTR, I have lived with and break bread bread with people from all walks of life, but I do tend to avoid the holier-than-thou, judgmental ones who stereotype people and form conclusions with little evidence...
I am addressing your argument, but you have no rebuttal other than to say "Next." I have already shown that the 2 conclusions you have made are influenced by your propensity for making assumptions, stereotyping people, and perhaps a bigger confirmation bias issue. Your last thread exhibits this well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot
I asked him where they had been taken. As it should be, he maintained the secrecy and did not tell me. My guess is that they were made to crawl through sewers, or some such place, that had fecal matter. I thought that this was a really high price to "buy" friends, which he otherwise wouldn't have had many of.
You did not know the facts so had to "guess" as to what happened. You used this "guess" and your opinion of a guy you "didn't particularly get along" with to form a conclusion that he would not have made friends. Perhaps he was only a "jerk" towards you or perhaps others may have interpreted his attitude differently?
You then go on to stereotype "half the guys in his fraternity" as "Scott Peterson types"... A really offensive / hateful rambling against Southern Cal. fraternity members. You even lash out against "Polynesian shirts" and "golf." Because Tommy Bahama wearing, golf playing, airport frequenting, fraternity members are cut from the same cloth as an evil monster like Scott Peterson? A really sick metaphor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot
Half the guys in his fraternity were Scott Peterson clones, a Southern California native son! While I don't know if Scott was in a fraternity at Cal Poly SLO, I do know he perfected his glibness waiting on tables, probably wearing a Polynesian shirt, and that he then golfed and sold fertilizer.
I find your emotional, anecdotal conclusions about the entire U.S. college Greek System lacks even a hint of validity. Is this the kind of logic your "extensive schooling" has taught you?
I find your emotional, anecdotal conclusions about the entire U.S. college Greek System lacks even a hint of validity. Is this the kind of logic your "extensive schooling" has taught you?
La tee dah = previous locations in Caribbean, Switzerland, etc. - when I lived in Europe, we lived in a mountaintop village with regular people, much preferable.
No, street smarts, being observant, and growing up in big cities taught me these things. Furthermore, many other people made the exact same observation of these same people.
Shouldn't you be doing what it takes to pay the payroll of those engineers reporting to you instead of sparring with me? Or hitting the nail salon in some industrial zone around ORD?
Here's one for you on stereotyping. One day, I was a little more suited up than usual. As I left the office to catch the train, I passed in front of the booth at the entrance to an urban parking deck. The attendant was standing outside and said to me "How'd stocks do today?" I told him "I'm not in that line of work," thinking to myself "not even close." That was based on his stereotyping of my appearance and apparel. While it may have been somewhat of a compliment, I thought to myself that this would have made me a superficial "back slapper," which didn't sit with me. So I'm NOT the only one that does it. And I'm sure the parking attendant, from seeing different people all day, isn't ignorant either.
Give it a rest. Next ...
Oh, I'm so glad you told this story. If the parking lot attendant also stereotypes people and he "isn't ignorant", then it must be ok. I mean, everyone is doing it, so what's the problem? And just how did this stereotyping make you feel? Like a superficial "back slapper." And how are you judging all the "back slappers" you see in the airport? From their suits?
Oh, I'm so glad you told this story. If the parking lot attendant also stereotypes people and he "isn't ignorant", then it must be ok. I mean, everyone is doing it, so what's the problem? And just how did this stereotyping make you feel? Like a superficial "back slapper." And how are you judging all the "back slappers" you see in the airport? From their suits?
Yes, I did say that it did. As for the airport, from their deportment and speech patterns while engaging in obnoxious conversations. You seem to be really invested in this. It sounds like I might be criticizing your husband, or a great chunk of your male friends.
Yes, stereotyping has worked well for me. It has worked well for my extended family. They do it all the time in Italy. You're Euro-savvy, so you know better. They will sit in a train station, in a restaurant, etc. and say "this person is a (this) and this person is a (that)." They are usually spot on. They can even tell what country people are from without hearing them speak. Read my status: "If it works, don't fix it."
La tee dah = previous locations in Caribbean, Switzerland, etc. - when I lived in Europe, we lived in a mountaintop village with regular people, much preferable.
No, street smarts, being observant, and growing up in big cities taught me these things. Furthermore, many other people made the exact same observation of these same people.
Shouldn't you be doing what it takes to pay the payroll of those engineers reporting to you instead of sparring with me? Or hitting the nail salon in some industrial zone around ORD?
Right, because you know from my profile that I've only lived in "la tee dah" areas.
You do learn street smarts in big cities (and maybe even a bit from frat house politics). But "many people making the exact same observation" does not make it right. Haven't your street smarts and "extensive education" in history taught you this?
I do agree with your 2nd to last sentence though. I need to get back to making money in the industrial zone now. This has been a diversion. Though I never frequent nail salons. Not my cup of tea.
Right, because you know from my profile that I've only lived in "la tee dah" areas.
You learn street smarts in big cities (and maybe even a bit with frat house politics). You don't learn it in the library - but, obviously, book smarts are necessary.
"Many people making the exact same observation" does not make it right. Hasn't your "extensive education" in history taught you this?
I do agree with your 2nd to last sentence though. I need to get back to making money in the industrial zone now. This has been a diversion. Though I never frequent nail salons. Not my cup of tea.
Please do, so you, your husband, and your mansion friend's earnings can be taxed to pay for the upkeep of those dismal high-rises on the Dan Ryan approaching Chi-town.
BTW - I just scanned the first page (10 posts) of this thread which I created. All of the exchanges were civil. Thank you for injecting the defensive and adversarial tone into this thread.
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So I'm NOT the only one that does it. And I'm sure the parking attendant, from seeing different people all day, isn't ignorant either.
