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Liberty and Bob Jones have their own slant. I don't know the current status, but at one time BJ was not accredited. I think that this was a deliberate move on the part of the BJ administration for whatever reason they thought appropriate at the time. But here's the thing: people evidently feel free to heap scorn on L and BJ, even though though both are considerably superior to, say, Fayetteville State, which nobody dares criticize. It's the other side of the coin -- bigotry directed against religious fundamentalists on the part of smug liberals. Evidently, with these folks "diversity" and "tolerance" don't extend to religious fundamentalists.
Although it is not especially good, there is nothing especially bad about Liberty in the grand scheme of things. In my opinion, Liberty is a legitimate university, on par or above numerous more conventional schools, including even some state institutions. The sin is falling outside the comfort zone of knee-jerk liberals (not to imply that all liberals have this characteristic), and perhaps flouting political correctness.
I have to admit that I'd never heard of Fayetteville State until you mentioned it. I don't even know what state it is in. It is true that some of the state institutions are not ranked highly.
One issue that I have though with places like Liberty and BJU is that they've been known (and it may still be true) to hire only those of their particular sect. As well as paying their staff very poorly. Not the way to get outstanding scholars. Contrast that with say Georgetown who does not use religion as the primary criteria for hiring.
Another thing is their belief that its their way or no way on certain topics and not just religion. With that emphasis, they'd likely not be able to attract good/outstanding staff in certain disciplines. I'd bet the best biologists would avoid Liberty. No self-respecting math professor would want to be associated with an institution that proclaims that set theory (and other aspects of "modern math") is godless. I mean, come on now, that is pure ignorance.
And, of course, the personal restrictions they place upon students are ridiculous. Normal people don't want to attend university and be treated like a 7th grader. Take a look sometime at the truly preposterous set of regulations that Pensacola Christian has, they are the worst but Liberty is not far off.
Contrast that with say Georgetown who does not use religion as the primary criteria for hiring.
I don't think that Liberty is comparable in any way to Georgetown, which is a top-whatever school.
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Another thing is their belief that its their way or no way on certain topics and not just religion. With that emphasis, they'd likely not be able to attract good/outstanding staff in certain disciplines.
This is a problem in spades throughout the American university -- how many conservatives serve on any faculty? Certain topics that offend the left-wing are forbidden discussion. And so on . . .
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I'd bet the best biologists would avoid Liberty.
I would think so too, and I surely would avoid it if I were a biologist.
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No self-respecting math professor would want to be associated with an institution that proclaims that set theory (and other aspects of "modern math") is godless. I mean, come on now, that is pure ignorance.
You're doing it again. Is there any evidence that this applies to Liberty?
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And, of course, the personal restrictions they place upon students are ridiculous. Normal people don't want to attend university and be treated like a 7th grader. Take a look sometime at the truly preposterous set of regulations that Pensacola Christian has, they are the worst but Liberty is not far off.
But not everybody thinks that these rules are preposterous, even though you and I might well agree that they are.
But not everybody thinks that these rules are preposterous, even though you and I might well agree that they are.
The one that got me was not allowing students of opposite sex to use the same stairs. Really now. Boy stairs and girl stairs. Well ..... logically, different entrances to each classroom building as well if steps are involved in order to enter the building..
The one that got me was not allowing students of opposite sex to use the same stairs. Really now. Boy stairs and girl stairs. Well ..... logically, different entrances to each classroom building as well if steps are involved in order to enter the building..
If you're talking about Liberty University when you say this this is just silly and untrue. Making stuff up about Liberty to further your point is pretty extreme. The whole godless math thing is really crazy too....LOL. I'm not sure how this went from a creation studies class to certain genders have to use different entrances or godless math is avoided.
There is something called accreditation and LU is a RA school (SACS) unlike Bob Jones or Pensacola Christian College. The one creation studies course at LU is a UG required course for all students in all fields. If I was going to be a nurse it's required but only counts as a elective and not a science course. The student then takes the normal bio classes and math classes like any other student would. The part that confuses people that never attended is thinking that the creation class is the science class. If LU did replace their bio course with creation studies they would lose their RA accreditation and I would assume any type of nursing program/medical accreditation.
There are over 3000 schools in the US and most of them are unheard of and unranked. LU is ranked in the 80's in the south regional rankings this isn't amazing but it sure isn't bad. I mentioned this a couple times in this thread but if I went to a small or large unranked state school it's doubtful anyone would say anything negative about it. LU's not perfect and isn't for everyone but it does cater to a niche type of student. A student that is looking for all the things at LU you would want to avoid.
Last edited by curtisc83; 11-21-2014 at 07:46 PM..
If you're talking about Liberty University when you say this this is just silly and untrue. Making stuff up about Liberty to further your point is pretty extreme. The whole godless math thing is really crazy too....LOL. I'm not sure how this went from a creation studies class to certain genders have to use different entrances or godless math is avoided.
That was at Pensacola Christian. Don't know if its true today, was a couple of years ago. They are the most extreme that I've read about but some people like the place.
A question. Free or not, why settle for Liberty which is ranked in the 80s? And that in the south. It isn't the worst rank but it surely is miserable.
If Liberty really wants to become a well known and highly ranked university, it has no choice but to change. In short, they are going to have to take the edge off their fundamentalist stance. Hire the best faculty they can find regardless of personal religious beliefs. Accept better students who have no interest in religious indoctrination. Remove the church from majority control if they refuse to go along with the changes.
Thats why I mentioned Georgetown which is Catholic but also an excellent academic university. Look at Emory, started as a Methodist related university. Liberty could transform itself into something like those two. But if not, they will continue on as a very low ranked institution.
That was at Pensacola Christian. Don't know if its true today, was a couple of years ago. They are the most extreme that I've read about but some people like the place.
A question. Free or not, why settle for Liberty which is ranked in the 80s? And that in the south. It isn't the worst rank but it surely is miserable.
If Liberty really wants to become a well known and highly ranked university, it has no choice but to change. In short, they are going to have to take the edge off their fundamentalist stance. Hire the best faculty they can find regardless of personal religious beliefs. Accept better students who have no real interest in religion indoctrination. Remove the church from majority control if they refuse to go along with the changes.
Thats why I mentioned Georgetown which is Catholic but also an excellent academic university. Look at Emory, started as a Methodist related university. Liberty could transform itself into something like those two. But if not, they will continue on as a very low ranked institution.
It's a long story but while I was in the Army I didn't know what I was doing so I went to the wrong school which happened to be NA. Fast forward to a more mature post Army version of me. I had these credits most schools wouldn't accept. So I went on a epic fact finding journey in order to find a school that would. APU/AMU and WGU would accept them but those are 100% online schools those options didn't seem like the best fit for me. Sul Ross State University would also accept them but we had no sites in West Texas. 100% online schools wouldn't of been the worst option but it wasn't ideal for what I wanted and needed. I picked LU because I needed a school to whitewash my assorted NA UG credits and at the time I was based out of Herndon, VA.
The company I worked for in Herndon was more than willing to let me do semesters here and there down in Lynchburg since I could make it into a long work trip. My job is to travel to remote sites to fix or install network equipment for the government. I also attended online courses while I traveled to other parts of the country/world for work. Sort of like a self made hybrid plan so I could get the help I needed for the harder courses. Since I used my GI Bill it was a win win for them and me. They could charge the government for a more educated employee and still get work out of me without paying for tuition.
If I said screw it and attended W&M or some other well know school in VA I would of had to start completely over and fully commit to school on campus because of the lack of online support. Also I only had 1 year of the post 9/11 and 2 years left of the old GI Bill. The old GI Bill wouldn't of covered the cost of a expensive school or my monthly expenses since I have a family. So I would of ended up with a massive amount of debt with a GI Bill that would of ran out by the end of the third year and no degree or house. LU also discounted all the tuition so my old GI Bill would cover all tuition it was the clear choice when picking schools. It also allowed me to have enough GI Bill money to complete a masters. The only other real options without drastically changing my life was to go to a 100% online school or go to a school like TESC and CLEP my way to a degree.
LU is slowly changing to something more mainstream. LU was founded in 1971 and the founder didn't die till 2007. So it's a pretty young school with some of the founding members/employees still alive and kicking. Since his son took over he has changed lots of things and has stated himself he is only concerned about education and not making LU into church. He's dad would of flipped those two things in the same comment.
Last edited by curtisc83; 11-21-2014 at 10:52 PM..
They teach young earth creationism in biology class as an alternative to facts and reality. That should tell you all you need to know. It's a disgrace that this place is even called a university. At one point they even infamously revoked recognition for the College Democrats club because it wasn't fitting with the university's far right political agenda.
If you're a radical right winger and Answers in Genesis type who just wants to have your political and religious beliefs reinforced instead of actually getting an education, go for it. Otherwise pick a real university that will give you a degree that people respect.
I, too, hold a dim view of much of this. But the truth is that most colleges aren't very good. Liberty has lots and lots of company. It's amusing and ironic to hear people who went to two-bit-wherever and majored in some dopey left-wing "studies" program criticize Liberty. At least Liberty has an identifiable purpose.
Glances over at my masters degree paperwork from a leftie school where the program is consistently ranked in the top ten in the country.
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Originally Posted by scratchie
Cut them a break on that. There's no official standard for what constitutes a "college" or "university". It seems like 3/4 of the colleges in Massachusetts have renamed themselves "Universities" over the last 30 years or so.
If you want to be accredited, there actually are requirements about accurate naming. I used to work at a community college that was going to start offering limited bachelor's degrees, and SACS made us drop 'Community' from the school name because as far as they were concerned, a community college only had programs of two years (or credit hour equivalent) or shorter. Haven't been on the university side of that discussion but I assume that a university name is then required if you want to offer even a very limited number of graduate degrees.
As for Pensacola Christian, I've know a couple of their grads, and a lot of them offer up a rather apologetic 'it's the only college my parents would pay for' if their college experience came up in conversation.
Maybe you shortchanged yourself, maybe not. Only time will tell . . .
I didn't. My MBA is from University of Virginia and I have a great career in healthcare data analytics. Nice try.
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Is there any evidence that this applies to Liberty?
