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Wrong. People with an M.S. in Finance are shooting for jobs as quant analysts and quant / algo traders. People with MBA's are shooting for jobs in Investment Banking, Corporate Finance, Equity Research, etc. One set of jobs is client facing and one is not. You are making assumptions, when you do not even work in the industry. You have probably read my past posts and it is quite clear that I work in the industry, and I know what type of candidates are competitive for certain types of jobs and what types of candidates are competitive for others.
Ok so now that we know that NYC analyst says that there is NO overlap in job competition between the two degrees , I guess that's settled
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Really? What are the TOP schools for an Econ MA? Harvard? PhD only. Princeton? PhD only. MIT? PhD only. Chicago? PhD only. Stanford? PhD only. Berkeley? PhD only. Yale? PhD only. Northwestern? PhD only. UPenn? PhD only. The highest ranked school that offers an econ MA is NYU, and according to their website:
Not sure where you're pulling the 800 from - again pulling thoughts out of left field instead of actually taking time and doing some research. B+ students? Are you kidding me?
I love how you cherry pick individual schools without putting them into the correct perspective. All of the above schools DO NOT offer terminal Masters degrees but award them in conjunction with their PhDs. That being said,
Can I apply to receive a Master's degree in Economics?
No, we do not offer a terminal MA degree in Economics. You can only apply to the PhD program and then add the MA as an additional degree once in the program.
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Do you have a minimum GRE score? Most of our successful applicants score a perfect 800 on the quantitative section of the GRE, and at least a 4.5 on the analytical section. If you do not score at least a 780 on the quantitative section and a 4.0 on the analytical section, we recommend that you re-take the exam and try to improve your score. In the admission process, the verbal section of the test is not as heavily weighted
Mind you MOST schools do not publish minimum GRE scores probably because doing so would disuade potential candidates. Also like you said, doing so would cut back on the revenue acquired through the application process. Taking it at face value, MOST schools simply want a 3.0 average with no GRE minimum, hardly telling
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Average school? Yeah go ahead and get your degree from an average school. Don't cry to me when you find yourself in the unemployment line because your average school failed to post it's (dismal) career placement rates. People study finance to make a ton of cash, and no one is going to pay some average joe six-figures when there are hundreds of Princeton, Stanford, etc students graduating every yea
I NEVER said that I would recommend anyone attending the average school for either of these two programs if they are looking to really bank and impress employers. I AM however alluding the fact that the AVERAGE M.S. in FInance degree program DOES not pale in comparison to the entry requirements for the average M.A. in Economics. Using the tip of the iceberg schools is a pointless comparison because the entry requirements in those programs are more or less the same on a numbers level. It's a pointless tit for tat discussion. Also I DO NOT think that the original poster was refering to the TOP programs anyway, so I DO NOT think that comparing Stanford's Econ program with that of their M.S. program is Finance is really worthy of any discussion for those two reasons alone. Besides, regarding your previous post, NO ONE is saying that an M.S. in Finance teaches soft skills at the TOP schools. Hell anything at a TOP schools is very rigorous. It doesn't matter if it's an M.S. Finance or an M.A. in Russian Literature.
Now in ALL fairness I randomly chose a well enough known school to compare the entry requirements that is probably attainable by anyone with a heartbeat and a decent GPA, So let's take a look at FSU's program.
College of Business | Master of Science in Finance Program Overview (http://cob.fsu.edu/fin/msf.cfm - broken link) FSU M.S. in Finance
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Admissions
Admission to the MSF program is based on multiple factors as delineated below. The minimum requirements to be considered for admission are a 3.0 overall GPA, a 3.4 upper division GPA, a 530 on the GMAT, and a minimum TOEFL score of 600 on the written examination, 250 on the computer based examination or 100 on the internet-based examination
According to the University of Florida's MSF Program
The average GMAT score is...670 which places you in the 82nd percentile
according to GMACAT
MS Finance - Finance, Insurance & Real Estate - Warrington College of Business Administration (http://warrington.ufl.edu/fire/programs/msf/programinfo/applying.asp - broken link)
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The average MBA student GMAT score is about 670. MSF student scores need to be comparable as they share classes with MBA students.
However, according to the University of Oregon M.A. in Economics states...
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Good economics programs will generally require a minimum of a 3.0 GPA in challenging math and economics courses with near-perfect GRE scores with a minimum of 75-80th percentile in GRE quantitative and analytical sections.
All of which places you in the 90-99th percentisle. Mind you there aren't many terminal Masters degrees BUT for many program you do earn one in the process of attempting to earn a PhD, if you can become a PhD candidate after completing all of the required exams and courses. Othwerwise for both schools you are considered an MA degree candidate beforehand.
I would not recommend that you choose your degree with the intention of thinking that you will get a job with the CIA. Those jobs are highly coveted, egregious and unpredictable in terms of the selection process. You never really know what those agencies (CIA, FBI, NSA etc) are looking for outside of the bare minimums and ALOT of those positions get thousands and thousands of applications for a few vacancies.
My advice would be to simply choose the degree of your liking, and choose one with the best opportunities. You can still attain one with applying to the CIA in mind, but it's best to create a list of possible jobs elsewhere as well by identifying some real possibilities with a few "shoot for the stars" opprtunities. Choosing one with the idea of what the CIA says that it wants on its website is a very easy way to dissapoint yourself in the long run.
However if you really want to improve your chances with the CIA as an Economic analyst, your best bet is to not only complete a degree in a related field, but to also master a critical language (Arabic, Urdu, Persian etc). Those people are very difficult for them to come by.
No, there is pretty much no overlap. Roll your eyes all you want.
So you are changing your mind now? Now you are talking about Econ PhD's instead of M.A.'s? (which take much more time to complete). Make up your mind. And you are cherry-picking all of these second-tier and third-tier M.S. / PhD and MsF schools to further your agenda. Seriously? FSU? U. Florida? Are we studying football or finance? So you're telling the OP to spend 7 years of his life for a PhD and go work for the CIA? I'm not sure if you've seen placement statistics for econ PhD programs, but most of them end up working as college professors, not for the CIA or any non-educational institution.
Lol and I hope you know that the score distribution of the GRE Math section is heavily skewed to the right. (Mostly because the math is a joke). Your *740* for Boulder's PhD program is only in the 80th percentile. Let's not fool anyone here. If someone wants to go to grad school for Finance or Econ they should be scoring at least a 790 or they should have a strong math background (Stochastic Calculus, Linear Algebra, etc).
No, there is pretty much no overlap. Roll your eyes all you want.
So you are changing your mind now? Now you are talking about Econ PhD's instead of M.A.'s? (which take much more time to complete). Make up your mind. And you are cherry-picking all of these second-tier and third-tier M.S. / PhD and MsF schools to further your agenda. Seriously? FSU? U. Florida? Are we studying football or finance? So you're telling the OP to spend 7 years of his life for a PhD and go work for the CIA? I'm not sure if you've seen placement statistics for econ PhD programs, but most of them end up working as college professors, not for the CIA or any non-educational institution.
Lol and I hope you know that the score distribution of the GRE Math section is heavily skewed to the right. (Mostly because the math is a joke). Your *740* for Boulder's PhD program is only in the 80th percentile. Let's not fool anyone here. If someone wants to go to grad school for Finance or Econ they should be scoring at least a 790 or they should have a strong math background (Stochastic Calculus, Linear Algebra, etc).
I stated that there are few M.A. terminal degree programs even out there. The schools that you mentioned generally provide enroute MA degrees which ultimately lead to PhDs provided the student passes his or her exams and has the interest in doing so. So yes, in essence we are still discussing MA degrees.
Second, using the "elite" schools is unrealistic. Sure, they're the ideal but chances are the OP was not talking about programs at Stanford, Harvard, MIT, U Chicago or whatever else. Most M.S. finance degree programs ARE NOT ELITE. U Florida, FSU and the like are "average" degree programs for the "average" person. It's a vey real scenerio to compare mid and 3rd tier programs between the two fields, it shows how very different they are. But like I said, comparing Harvard to Princeton is like comparing two diamonds with the same clarity, when the bottomline is that those diamonds are still worth more than most other rocks. There's very little difference between them if your ultimate goal is to make money and impress employers.
3rd. I'm aware of what PhDs are taught to do...and that is teach! Most do not end up as professors though, given the lack of positions available. Most do enter the world as professional researchers, consultants, or non tenured teachers or a mixture of the 2 or 3.
4--the bottomline is, the math requirements for the average Econ Programs and that of Finance are different. Math GRE scores for half way decent programs will tell you that you need atleast a 700+ bare minimum. I don't think a single program will allow you in with the equvilent of a 30th perecent isle in the GMAT. Elite FInance programs will have similar expectations that Elite Econ programs there (I think we atleast agree there) but like I said, for lower tiered average schools, this is not the reality.
NYCAnalyst, what top school did you go to? You seems like on smart cookie that seems to know everything. I want to be like you when I grow up, can I be your apprentice?
I stated that there are few M.A. terminal degree programs even out there. The schools that you mentioned generally provide enroute MA degrees which ultimately lead to PhDs provided the student passes his or her exams and has the interest in doing so. So yes, in essence we are still discussing MA degrees.
Second, using the "elite" schools is unrealistic. Sure, they're the ideal but chances are the OP was not talking about programs at Stanford, Harvard, MIT, U Chicago or whatever else. Most M.S. finance degree programs ARE NOT ELITE. U Florida, FSU and the like are "average" degree programs for the "average" person. It's a vey real scenerio to compare mid and 3rd tier programs between the two fields, it shows how very different they are. But like I said, comparing Harvard to Princeton is like comparing two diamonds with the same clarity, when the bottomline is that those diamonds are still worth more than most other rocks. There's very little difference between them if your ultimate goal is to make money and impress employers.
3rd. I'm aware of what PhDs are taught to do...and that is teach! Most do not end up as professors though, given the lack of positions available. Most do enter the world as professional researchers, consultants, or non tenured teachers or a mixture of the 2 or 3.
4--the bottomline is, the math requirements for the average Econ Programs and that of Finance are different. Math GRE scores for half way decent programs will tell you that you need atleast a 700+ bare minimum. I don't think a single program will allow you in with the equvilent of a 30th perecent isle in the GMAT. Elite FInance programs will have similar expectations that Elite Econ programs there (I think we atleast agree there) but like I said, for lower tiered average schools, this is not the reality.
Ok dude, so why are you telling this guy to get his PhD if he wants to work in the CIA and you know that PhD's go into teaching, not government jobs?
Your logic does not make sense.
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