Why do you respect Ivy League schools so much? (scores, admissions, class)
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I believe that Cornell also has a highly respected engineering program,
I don't know if they still do it, but doesn't Cornell use curve grading for their undergrad engineering classes? That could be brutal especially in a major such as engineering.
I see them as a rite of passage for a certain element of the wealthy class, for the elite jobs, and a few lucky students get to piggy-back in by winning a lottery.
Seriously, there are, what? 60,000 total students at the Ivy Leagues at any given time? Out of what, about 19 million college students?
They get way too much attention as it is, which is a reminder of our status-obsessed culture.
I don't give a hoot if you are Ivy League or community college. Show me you have what it takes to do the job. I don't even look at the alma mater of the resumes I see. I skip it and only look after that applicant is picked for an interview. That is, UNLESS it is a horribly worded cover letter or something. Then I look to see who puts out those terrible graduates. We have a couple Ivy graduates where I work and their getting hired had nothing to do with their Ivy degree.
I still remember Minnesota State-Mankato. There were several applicants from there to a job I was involved with hiring... must have gotten posted to their bulletin board. None of them could write or punctuate a proper English sentence to save their lives.
I see them as a rite of passage for a certain element of the wealthy class, for the elite jobs, and a few lucky students get to piggy-back in by winning a lottery.
Seriously, there are, what? 60,000 total students at the Ivy Leagues at any given time? Out of what, about 19 million college students?
They get way too much attention as it is, which is a reminder of our status-obsessed culture.
I don't give a hoot if you are Ivy League or community college. Show me you have what it takes to do the job. I don't even look at the alma mater of the resumes I see. I skip it and only look after that applicant is picked for an interview. That is, UNLESS it is a horribly worded cover letter or something. Then I look to see who puts out those terrible graduates. We have a couple Ivy graduates where I work and their getting hired had nothing to do with their Ivy degree.
I still remember Minnesota State-Mankato. There were several applicants from there to a job I was involved with hiring... must have gotten posted to their bulletin board. None of them could write or punctuate a proper English sentence to save their lives.
+1. It's really about the person's talent, not where they went to school or necessarily what their degree is in,
I was talking to someone who goes to an Ivy League school and immediately I was impressed. But now I'm not really impressed anymore. I'm left wondering whats so special about Ivy League schools.
I understand it's exclusive and hard to get into. But there are plenty of things more exclusive and with an even limited admittance.
So I must ask, what's so special about Ivy League Schools? How are the schools and students life changing? Outside of the campus grounds, what does it mean?
There's a difference between the reputation of the Ivy League University and the various colleges/schools of it.:
Harvard,
Princeton,
Yale,
Columbia,
U. of Penn.,
Cornell,
Brown,
Dartmouth
For example, Cornell is known (by me & ppl. I've known) for Architecture, Harvard for Business, Princeton & Yale for Law, etc.
While the cost to attend an Ivy League Univ. is impressive the degree may not be. Even Ivy League Universities are known to have certain colleges that are very good and other schools that are "not so much".
Other Universities that are often seen as "on par" with the Ivy League Universities, in certain areas of study, are:
College of William and Mary,
Miami University (Oxford),
University of California,
University of Michigan at Ann Arbor,
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
University of Texas at Austin,
University of Vermont,
University of Virginia.
I think the advantage is the size of the alumni base from these schools. However, a student who is not part of the ultra-rich elite prior to entering one of these schools may be excluded from forming contacts with other students and alumni, contacts with are necessary to access the benefits of the massive and well connected alumni base.
Our youngest son (child of an Engineer and Teacher's Aide, grandchild of Factory Laborers) completed a two-year Post Baccalaureate Pre-Med Program at Harvard. He aced the program and commented regarding his classes that he had never seen so many stupid people all in one place before. He said "I hope to God that none of them are ever my Doctor."
Ivy League schools are very limited in the world view they provide their students. More on this later.
I spent my lower division at a community college (yeah, I was a pretty bad high school student). It was a amazing education, but the school just opened and hired recent graduate students from Stanford and Berkeley to teach.
From there I went to graduate from a elite public university. Then spent a year as a graduate student at a mediocre Canadian university, before returning to graduate school at the elite university.
I asked a professor how that elite public university differed from a "normal" public college. His comment was "we graduate 40 students a year, they graduate 200 plus. But their top 40 would compare favorably with our 40".
My observation is that the elite Universities really teach you how to solve problems. The other schools seems to teach how to "do things". Early in my career that is what I noticed. If I was given an assignment I just went ahead and did it. Students from "regular" schools tended to ask for direction on how to approach problems.
I think that is the advantage to a Ivy League education or a elite public University.
The fall down, is that even in the 1970's the students at elite universities had little contact with the rest of America. That is the problem with an elite education. You live in a bubble with little contact with America. The only time the Elites in America mingle with regular Americans is in the military or the education system. The previous President was the first since WWII that NEVER attended ANY American public school and also did not serve in the military. No wonder he lacked "understanding" of the world outside his bubble.
That community college gave me a perspective from my fellow students that was missing at the elite institution. The divide you see in America today is that we live in TWO very different countries with little mixing. If your a working class American or Asian your chances of going to an Ivy League school are nil. Remember you are NOT admitted to an Ivy League school, but rather selected. And as anybody with a background in statistics knows....selection is a biased process.
I know several Ivy League graduates. They come from rich families and are educated smart, but lack a understanding of the world outside their bubble. They are well along in the process of destroying the businesses that their families took generations building.
Of course, the previous generations did not have the advantage of an Ivy League education.
I'm not going to comment on perceptions of Ivy League institutions because talking about prestige is about as useful as talking about Fendi handbags. I will just make these observations to clear up some misconceptions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by James1202
For example, Cornell is known (by me & ppl. I've known) for Architecture, Harvard for Business, Princeton & Yale for Law, etc.
Our youngest son (child of an Engineer and Teacher's Aide, grandchild of Factory Laborers) completed a two-year Post Baccalaureate Pre-Med Program at Harvard.
The post-bac pre med program is offered at Harvard Extension. The purpose of the program and the composition of students are quite different from undergraduate, graduate, and professional degree programs at Harvard. Numerous schools offer post-bac pre med programs to those who have already obtained an undergraduate degree. It is a great option for those who need to fulfill prerequisite coursework before applying to health sciences programs and, for some, an opportunity to mature academically. Like any extension program (or any program really), the quality and maturity of students are varied. I would be cautious about generalizations made from such a limited experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509
If your a working class American or Asian your chances of going to an Ivy League school are nil.
I will give you benefit of the doubt and read this as hyperbole. The student bodies at many of the private, highly selective universities are about 20% Asian.
There was a poster who's since left us, a graduate of an Ivy league, who was openly dismissive of any educational experience that did not involve hobnobbing with professors and PhD students while actively conducting research and co-publishing papers.
As a low-tier state school guy, I swear it was like we were from two different planets. But I truly think he believed that's what all college experiences were like, which speaks volumes about how incredibly good the Ivy League educational experience must be.
I went to a state school (UT), knew my dean personally, and went to social events at professors' homes.
I helped put together a textbook and published in a prominent science journal. All as an undergrad.
Have many friends and colleagues who went to Ivy League schools who did not have that experience. So I don't think that's the experience that is exclusive to or necessarily had in Ivy League schools.
What high level schools or high-level programs at any school have that other places do not are student bodies that are much more impressive. People with serious goals and usually higher intellectual pursuits with the ability and the inclination to work very hard to achieve.
Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. But that is what is impressive.
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