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What I"m saying is not that he should take this job and stick with it forever. What I am saying is that jobs in the arts are scarce, but anyone can take 2 or 4 years of college and get a certificate or degree in arts. What stands out more when seeking employment is going to be actual working experience, not just another arts degree.
And let's face it, getting a 2 year certificate at the JC is in the reach of anyone with a pulse, at any time in life, and getting a 4 year degree is in the reach of anyone with reasonable intelligence and talent, at any time in life.
Let's use another art form.
If you were a bandleader, would you rather hire a fresh graduate of the music school who's never played a gig, or someone without a degree who's been playing professionally 250 nights a year since he was 14?
I completely understand your point.
However, to take an extreme example, Josh Groban has detailed his struggle with anxiety and depression. He said that because he went straight into the professional world out of high school, he missed making connections with his peers for many years, and was socially maladjusted for a long time. Despite enormous professional success, he was personally very unhappy.
Odds are that my son will never be famous or work on that kind of scale, don’t get me wrong.
But I worry about a similar situation to a smaller degree.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc
I completely understand your point.
However, to take an extreme example, Josh Groban has detailed his struggle with anxiety and depression. He said that because he went straight into the professional world out of high school, he missed making connections with his peers for many years, and was socially maladjusted for a long time. Despite enormous professional success, he was personally very unhappy.
Odds are that my son will never be famous or work on that kind of scale, don’t get me wrong.
But I worry about a similar situation to a smaller degree.
With the right friends / colleagues within his working gig / apprenticeship, his social connections should be far more 'natural' sustained than a college experience would bring. I became very good friends with many workers and contacts of all ages, interests and skillsets during my apprenticeship. There were a few bad apples but far less than the 'temporary' friends and relationships you gain in college. I am still in touch with several friends and family of apprentice masters (from 40+ yrs ago). I also gained interests in foreign nationals and parallel industries and that enhanced my social skills and quests for many yrs. Traveled to various countries and often dropped in on businesses and industries I was introduced to during my late teens and 20's. (while most kids my age were stuck in a classroom of clones (peer age group).)
Attending a 40th HS reunion sheds light on the value (and burden) or being stuck in HS with HS / college friends for 40 yrs.
My suggestion, since he has a good job available to him right now, would be to take a gap year of working there, then re-evaluate whether college is necessary for him to meet his goals. He may find that the lack of a certificate/degree will limit his ambitions, or that he doesn't have the technical skill and knowledge base to be competitive in the workplace without further training. Or he may find that he's doing great, is able to learn on the job, and does not need additional credentials at this time. If it's the latter, then college is not necessary at this time - he can always go later if he needs/wants to for career or personal reasons. If it's the former, he'll be much more motivated to do well in college than if he jumps into it directly out of HS simply because it's what's expected.
As far as the maturity gap between him and his potential coworkers goes...well, he can't possibly get up to anything stupider with a bunch of older people than he could with a bunch of fellow 18-22 year-old art students. I'd think an older crowd would be more likely to look out for him while away from home, too.
However, to take an extreme example, Josh Groban has detailed his struggle with anxiety and depression. He said that because he went straight into the professional world out of high school, he missed making connections with his peers for many years, and was socially maladjusted for a long time. Despite enormous professional success, he was personally very unhappy.
Odds are that my son will never be famous or work on that kind of scale, don’t get me wrong.
But I worry about a similar situation to a smaller degree.
Until very recently, the overwhelming majority of people went straight from high school to work, and before that, from eighth or ninth grade or earlier. They didn't get depressed or maladjusted over it. Entertainers, OTOH, tend to have more than their share of personal problems.
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However, to take an extreme example, Josh Groban has detailed his struggle with anxiety and depression. He said that because he went straight into the professional world out of high school, he missed making connections with his peers for many years, and was socially maladjusted for a long time. Despite enormous professional success, he was personally very unhappy....
Well, I'm not sure who Josh Groban is, but I think extrapolating the experience of one famous person to your son is really stretching the point in order to get him to do what you want him to do.
Frankly, I question whether a bunch of typical junior college students, or a bunch of typical university students, will be more a "peer group" for your son than a group of dedicated professionals working in the field he plans to go into.
Well, I'm not sure who Josh Groban is, but I think extrapolating the experience of one famous person to your son is really stretching the point in order to get him to do what you want him to do.
Frankly, I question whether a bunch of typical junior college students, or a bunch of typical university students, will be more a "peer group" for your son than a group of dedicated professionals working in the field he plans to go into.
I’ve said repeatedly, but I guess many of you missed it, that my son IS interested in attending the junior college. He is NOT sure that he wants to go straight into full time work.
He does not want at this time to pursue the four year university option.
So please stop answering that I am trying to get him to do what I want him to do. It is incorrect.
As someone with a BA in liberal arts from a top rated public university (UCLA) and an MBA from a good private university (Long Island University), I can unreservedly say almost nothing in the undergrad curriculum and very little in the MBA curriculum was of any use to me in a lifetime of work. The only value was learning to stick it out to learn subjects which I never used again to get a diploma. Sticking it out was something that work required to a very large extent. The most important factor at work was something not taught in schools, how to mange your relationships with your bosses and peers. The diplomas on my resume got me job interviews. From there it was up to me to talk my way into the jobs, learn quickly, and do the jobs well.
If your son has found something he wants to do with his life at this age, go for it. It's worth a two year investment whether it works out or not. People don't really know if things will work out until they try them. My first attempt going away to college ended in 10 weeks. I quit and went to work full time for the next seven months, and realized I needed a college degree to get a decent paying job. My second attempt the following year commuting from home worked out well.
Not everyone is suited or would even be happy climbing the ladder in a corporate environment, which is where a 4 year degree generally puts you. Be advised, the arts are a hard road to make a living in. I knew a professional sculptor who worked as a professional college librarian and did sculpting on the side. He won a bunch of awards, but I doubt a lifetime of sculpting paid as much as a half year's salary on his job. Maybe your son will be a star. But that's a one in a million chance. But for thousands of artists, musicians, sculptors, dancers, etc., just making a living as an artist is their definition of success. For the rest, they have an enjoyable hobby.
I would consider this carefully. Maybe your son can start the apprenticeship out of high school. He will know within 6 months or so if he would benefit from further education or is already more advanced than the school program would make him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit
Suggestion ...
BTDT, serving an apprenticeship after HS and pecking away at additional education as needed / required / available.
If the art career path is legitimate and challenges and teaches him (and he can see himself learning / establishing professionalism to make a career from art...) He is miles ahead of a BFA grad for that particular role, and he is learning from seasoned professionals. This is a very rare and valuable opportunity. Getting paid to learn + experiencing more practical business and relevant artist skills than a school can provide you.
I would stick with the job as long as possible and glean the most benefit from others. THEN go back to school (if you must). I went back again at age 50, but the job apprenticeship, lessons, master teachers were invaluable to my lifelong career skills and success. They don't make teachers / experiences like that anymore. Reap the rewards (now and later).
I'm all for lifelong learning. Take the best opportunities that fills the need at the moment. I would not stick your son in college at this point, especially a BFA. Expensive and frustrating opportunity to fail and flame out for life, vs a quest to explore, create, participate in REAL work... and learn everyday.
Junior colleges or community colleges are NOT easier than four year colleges. This is a common misperception.
Their courses must meet all accreditation standards for transfer credits. They are usually cheaper which is why so many students go to them first and then get their degree from a 4 year school. If your son wants to go- why not let him go? He'll quickly discover whether he'll be successful.
However, if your son is truly a good and outstanding artist- he doesn't need any college to be successful. If he's an "artist" like most of us, he needs job training.
Over the holidays, my son worked on a huge project with many other professionals in his field. He was easily the youngest by 15 years. It made him realize he still has a lot to learn, professionally and personally. He is going into a very high pressure field, and although he truly loved the experience, it also opened his eyes to that he has a ways to go.
He has decided to go to college next year, unless schools are still shut down in that state, in which case he will take a gap year and work.
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