Colorado OFF TOPIC thread :) (Denver, Boulder: renting, home, live)

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by steveco.

You see it has to do with land use and how it affected people 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 150 years ago etc. The car was not the most highly used mode of transit back when cities usually were first founded. Usually it would be in the form of horse drawn buggie or train or street car. Hence the dense housing you see in historic areas around the city. I can go into detail if you want but most cities that are more than 100 years old usually have this same type of development pattern. Even worse are European cities. You'd be lucky to even find a yard in one of them

Gee, I must have been very lucky because I found yards in all very old European Cities. That is like saying, Denver, Boston, New York has people living in Condos and Apartments and therefore there are no private homes with yards. Even New York City in Manhattan has homes with yards--the most dense and on of the older cities in this country.

Of course, European Cities from Rome, Prague, Berlin, Paris, Amsterdam, London, Budapest etc. have yards and not only in upscale housing but in many common homes. In the more developed cities, even in the inner denser older part of the cities, you will see private homes with yards, gardens etc. In the less developed cities, you will see many homes with yards, more vegetable gardens (not as much growing useless grass), chickens, goats, etc all in the cities--in yards. So what Europe are you talking about??? Not the Europe of my travels.

Sure there are dense housing areas, that do not have yard. Maybe you need a little luck and you need to do a little traveling.

Livecontent

[Katarina Witt]

When I went to Europe last spring, I noted that in Belgium, the Netherlands, and in NW Germany, most people seemed to live in mid-rise apt buildings that went on, in some cases, for blocks. These buildings were generally right up against the sidewalk with no setback and little landscaping around, e.g. trees. I did note that in the smaller cities in Germany, the apt buildings were smaller and there were more yards than in Belgium and the Netherlands. There was also a little more open land. The Netherlands is the densest country in Europe.

[steveindenver]

Gee, I must have been very lucky because I found yards in all very old European Cities.

Not really. Most older European Cities do in fact have zero yards. Cadiz (the oldest known and documented inhabited city in Europe) in Spain being a great example. Zero yards for 99 percent of the city with an ever expanding series of walls. Seville, Valencia, Palma de Mallorca all the same. You have an urban core (generally roman or pre-dating roman) and various other urban cores that gave been absorbed into the general core in the past couple of centuries.

In fact most of Spain is this way -- with the exception of the newer cities. Madrid is a good example of this. As it is only a few hundred years old and is surrounded by vast amounts of cheap farm land Madrid is an intersting case study in European suburban sprawl (and the pit-falls associted with such.

Northern Europe which came to be a bit later in terms of culture can be a bit different, but not by that much.

[livecontent]

Every city in Europe has some properties with yards. In very old cities, including Spain, there are residences that have yards. They may be the upper class residences in some very dense inner cities; they may be a small percentage in some cities, but as "luck finds it" there is at least one and one is a part of the whole--so my original statement stands--it appears I am very lucky.

A yard can be any open ground that is not covered by a structure for living; an enclosed courtyard can be a yard (You will find many of those in older residences, in older cities). A small herb and vegetable garden can be a yard; a small treed area can be a yard; plain ground can be a yard. Let us not forget the church yards for the privileged priest.

And since most all of Europe is not defined by these severe older walled cities--then the statement that yards do not exist in European Cities is wrong.

Steveco, if one is always going to add suspect statements to support an opinion, in a forum, then prepare to be challenged.


"Livecontent" as in charged and ready. "quickly....my horse, my lance and my armor"

Of course, SteveinDenver, I see your point, I lower my lance and I will leave the field of honor to you.

[steveco.]

Originally Posted by livecontent

Every city in Europe has some properties with yards. In very old cities, including Spain, there are residences that have yards. They may be the upper class residences in some very dense inner cities; they may be a small percentage in some cities, but as "luck finds it" there is at least one and one is a part of the whole--so my original statement stands--it appears I am very lucky.

A yard can be any open ground that is not covered by a structure for living; an enclosed courtyard can be a yard (You will find many of those in older residences, in older cities). A small herb and vegetable garden can be a yard; a small treed area can be a yard; plain ground can be a yard. Let us not forget the church yards for the privileged priest.

And since most all of Europe is not defined by these severe older walled cities--then the statement that yards do not exist in European Cities is wrong.

Steveco, if one is always going to add suspect statements to support an opinion, in a forum, then prepare to be challenged.


"Livecontent" as in charged and ready. "quickly....my horse, my lance and my armor"

Of course, SteveinDenver, I see your point, I lower my lance and I will leave the field of honor to you.

I don't have a problem with my statements being challenged and aparently what is classified as a "yard" is somewhat subjective. If you classify any area that requires a seed or mulch as yard then they are everywhere. But if you go by a sizeable area of grassy area sitting in front of a single family house, such as what I was reffering to earlier then it becomes a bit more limited. I may not travel as much as you or been to as many places as you have but what I have seen in the places that I have been such as NY, the number of yards in lower and midtown manhatten are slim to none. Now if you are reffering to a Park?? then yes they are everywhere even in the dense european cities that I was reffering to as well. Sorry if my post was hard to understand.

[onthamove]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

A rural Colorado policeman friend of mine frequently used the more direct, "Hey, g****m it!" variation to quiet things down when they got a little rowdy in a local bar. Worked quite effectively.

Oh, and if you ever got hung up in the old I-25/I-70 "mousetrap," you wouldn't be asking how it got its name . . .

i dont know if its a mousetrap but coming down the mountains to denver and trying to even connect on 25 is a pain in the rear

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by onthamove

i dont know if its a mousetrap but coming down the mountains to denver and trying to even connect on 25 is a pain in the rear

so, how IS that commute from Evergreen going??

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by onthamove

i dont know if its a mousetrap but coming down the mountains to denver and trying to even connect on 25 is a pain in the rear

I remember KHOW radio and "Hal & Charlie" (or were they KOA..?) and whoever the traffic copter guy was, seemed like every day was a bad day around the "Mousetrap" back then...

nevermind, found your other posts & you're not here until May...you might catch some of the last days at A-Basin...if we get enough wind and warm temps up there they may not make June..

[HighlandsGal]

Originally Posted by Katiana

When I went to Europe last spring, I noted that in Belgium, the Netherlands, and in NW Germany, most people seemed to live in mid-rise apt buildings that went on, in some cases, for blocks. These buildings were generally right up against the sidewalk with no setback and little landscaping around, e.g. trees. I did note that in the smaller cities in Germany, the apt buildings were smaller and there were more yards than in Belgium and the Netherlands. There was also a little more open land. The Netherlands is the densest country in Europe.

Yes it is, (the Netherlands the most dense) however, everyone I know over there that lives in a house has yards -- mostly back yards but also small gardens in the front. Landscaping is HUGE there though -- and most are professional "Better Homes and Garden" type gardens rather than the American-style grass lawn.

This is in Southern NL where I have family by the way -- Geldrop, Helmond, and Eindhoven

Sorry to get off topic!!

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by HighlandsGal

Yes it is, (the Netherlands the most dense) however, everyone I know over there that lives in a house has yards -- mostly back yards but also small gardens in the front. Landscaping is HUGE there though -- and most are professional "Better Homes and Garden" type gardens rather than the American-style grass lawn.

This is in Southern NL where I have family by the way -- Geldrop, Helmond, and Eindhoven

Sorry to get off topic!!

I guess I didn't see that part of the Neth. Amsterdam is very dense and built-up, but way cool! The canals are neat. We also saw this tulip festival at a Botanic Gardens place in a town called Keukenhof, and the tulip farms in bloom. Awesome!