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Well I agree that Australia has done a much, much better job than the USA. Most of Europe flopped basically as badly as the US did in terms of covid-response, and Western Europe is stereotyped as being much more educated/responsive when it comes to these types of things and that simply wasn’t the case statically.
Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand and Canada have really shown the way in terms of the right response to Covid.
Well I agree that Australia has done a much, much better job than the USA. Most of Europe flopped basically as badly as the US did in terms of covid-response, and Western Europe is stereotyped as being much more educated/responsive when it comes to these types of things and that simply wasn’t the case statically.
Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand and Canada have really shown the way in terms of the right response to Covid.
Click on the headers of the following chart to sort by the category. Just looking at deaths per million, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland and Norway have done much better than the U.S. The U.S. is a basket case, ranking 19th in the world, despite perhaps the world's most abundant supply of MRNA vaccines. INEXCUSABLE IMO.
Click on the headers of the following chart to sort by the category. Just looking at deaths per million, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland and Norway have done much better than the U.S. The U.S. is a basket case, ranking 19th in the world, despite perhaps the world's most abundant supply of MRNA vaccines. INEXCUSABLE IMO.
Well I agree that Australia has done a much, much better job than the USA. Most of Europe flopped basically as badly as the US did in terms of covid-response, and Western Europe is stereotyped as being much more educated/responsive when it comes to these types of things and that simply wasn’t the case statically.
Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand and Canada have really shown the way in terms of the right response to Covid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeasterner1970
Ok, that’s 8 countries…out of close to 50. That doesn’t disprove my point…at all.
WRONG!
Anybody who sorts the worldometers country table by deaths per million population would see that the European Union overall has done appreciably better than the U.S. in battling the COVID epidemic. What's sad is that, as with Australia and so many Asian nations, this outperformance has taken place even though Europe had a massive relative shortage of vaccines, especially the better MRNA vaccines, compared to the U.S. earlier in the epidemic. Also, the U.S. performance is much, much worse since July 2021 as the Delta variant took hold.
There are only 27 nations in the European Union. If you add the U.K., Switzerland, and Norway, we're talking about 30 nations. These are the nations economically most comparable to the U.S. with the strongest governments.
There are only 44 nations in Europe IF you include nations such as Russia and the Ukraine, and only 25 of those countries have populations over 5 million. Nine of the 44 nations have a population of less than 1 million.
So, looking at the European Union plus the U.K., Switzerland and Norway, only Hungary, Bulgaria, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia and Belgium have had higher death rates per million than the U.S. None of these six nations have a higher COVID death rate than Mississippi, the worst U.S. state.
The populations of these six nations is about 46.4 million of the European Union's 446 million population, even before adding 82 million persons to account for the U.K., Switzerland and Norway.
Let's compare the U.S. with Germany, the most populous European Union country with 83.2 million people. It's COVID death rate is 1,129 per million population, compared to 2,197 in the U.S.
Scrolling over the interactive COVID deaths graphs linked below, Germany has suffered 2,492 COVID deaths during the Delta surge since July 31 through Oct. 8., compared to 100,530 in the U.S. The respective Delta surge COVID death rates are 30 and 301, ten times higher in the U.S.
BTW, through Oct. 8, Ohio has experienced 2,318 COVID Delta surge deaths since July 31, for a rate of 198 per million, well over six times the rate in Germany and the Delta surge still is raging in Ohio.
My point is that Ohio and the U.S. pandemic policy response has been pathetic, grossly so considering the wide availability of excellent vaccines in the U.S. Our public health policies apart from vaccination are virtually non-existent, and our vaccination policies remain inept. We've allowed anti-science beliefs to boil over in the U.S. and dominate our policy response.
In Ohio, our governor and Republican legislators believe it's perfectly acceptable to decline to be vaccinated or even to wear a mask, even in schools where for some ages vaccinations aren't even possible. I was in several grocery and other retail stores in Lake County today, and, apart from employees, I was one of the very few customers wearing a mask, even though a sizable minority of our county's population remains unvaccinated, and most vaccinated persons haven't yet received their third dose.
The positivity rate in Lake County for the 14-day period ending 9/28 was 9.5 percent. In Franklin County it was 9.9 percent! Lake County, unlike Franklin County, does not have an indoor mask advisory in effect. Note that Ohio's Republican legislators have prohibited counties from issuing mask mandates.
Foolishly, our leaders now are considering living with an ever present COVID endemic, and I've seen little inclination to implement the stringent public health measures used in the most successful nations, including mandatory vaccinations, and enforced contact tracing and quarantining, mask wearing and lockdowns when necessary.
Shockingly, we've totally neglected the issue of long COVID sequelae which likely impact over 10 percent of persons infected with COVID even if their cases are mild or even asymptomatic. Infected individuals, including children, may, as with the HIV virus, harbor the COVID virus for the rest of their lives and/or experience irreparable organ, including brain, damage. See post 447 in this thread.
Rationalizing our poor COVID response by ridiculously comparing our experience with Europe is not a path towards competence and superiority. We should be comparing our policies with those of the most successful nations, especially democracies such as Australia, Korea, and, yes, Canada.
Frighteningly, our COVID public health policies pale against those martialed by earlier generations of Americans against smallpox, polio and even TB. Ohioans and Americans remain unacceptably vulnerable to the existing COVID variants let alone new "novel" viruses, including a "monster" COVID variant that evades our current immunities, let alone an engineered virus unleashed upon us by an enemy, which may very well have occurred with the COVID virus, whether intentionally or unintentionally by the Chinese.
Amazingly, few persons in the U.S. have discussed how the Chinese do NOT tolerate the COVID virus in their society to even a greater extent than the Australians. They will enforce mandatory testing of millions of residents of any area where COVID cases emerge, locking down the economy until they can quarantine any infected individuals and stamp out the infection. I worry the Chinese understand much more about the long term effects of COVID sequelae than do our IMO pathetically inept leaders, including those in the Biden administration, even if the Biden COVID team is far superior to Trump and his anti-science sycophants.
Does the Chinese response to the COVID epidemic make you proud to be an American, or optimistic about the future of our younger generations? Just consider the massive damage to the U.S. educational system and the educational deficiencies inflicted on our younger generations by the disastrous U.S. response to the COVID epidemic compared to China.
Anybody who sorts the worldometers country table by deaths per million population would see that the European Union overall has done appreciably better than the U.S. in battling the COVID epidemic. What's sad is that, as with Australia and so many Asian nations, this outperformance has taken place even though Europe had a massive relative shortage of vaccines, especially the better MRNA vaccines, compared to the U.S. earlier in the epidemic. Also, the U.S. performance is much, much worse since July 2021 as the Delta variant took hold.
There are only 27 nations in the European Union. If you add the U.K., Switzerland, and Norway, we're talking about 30 nations. These are the nations economically most comparable to the U.S. with the strongest governments.
There are only 44 nations in Europe IF you include nations such as Russia and the Ukraine, and only 25 of those countries have populations over 5 million. Nine of the 44 nations have a population of less than 1 million.
So, looking at the European Union plus the U.K., Switzerland and Norway, only Hungary, Bulgaria, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia and Belgium have had higher death rates per million than the U.S. None of these six nations have a higher COVID death rate than Mississippi, the worst U.S. state.
The populations of these six nations is about 46.4 million of the European Union's 446 million population, even before adding 82 million persons to account for the U.K., Switzerland and Norway.
Let's compare the U.S. with Germany, the most populous European Union country with 83.2 million people. It's COVID death rate is 1,129 per million population, compared to 2,197 in the U.S.
Scrolling over the interactive COVID deaths graphs linked below, Germany has suffered 2,492 COVID deaths during the Delta surge since July 31 through Oct. 8., compared to 100,530 in the U.S. The respective Delta surge COVID death rates are 30 and 301, ten times higher in the U.S.
BTW, through Oct. 8, Ohio has experienced 2,318 COVID Delta surge deaths since July 31, for a rate of 198 per million, well over six times the rate in Germany and the Delta surge still is raging in Ohio.
My point is that Ohio and the U.S. pandemic policy response has been pathetic, grossly so considering the wide availability of excellent vaccines in the U.S. Our public health policies apart from vaccination are virtually non-existent, and our vaccination policies remain inept. We've allowed anti-science beliefs to boil over in the U.S. and dominate our policy response.
In Ohio, our governor and Republican legislators believe it's perfectly acceptable to decline to be vaccinated or even to wear a mask, even in schools where for some ages vaccinations aren't even possible. I was in several grocery and other retail stores in Lake County today, and, apart from employees, I was one of the very few customers wearing a mask, even though a sizable minority of our county's population remains unvaccinated, and most vaccinated persons haven't yet received their third dose.
The positivity rate in Lake County for the 14-day period ending 9/28 was 9.5 percent. In Franklin County it was 9.9 percent! Lake County, unlike Franklin County, does not have an indoor mask advisory in effect. Note that Ohio's Republican legislators have prohibited counties from issuing mask mandates.
Foolishly, our leaders now are considering living with an ever present COVID endemic, and I've seen little inclination to implement the stringent public health measures used in the most successful nations, including mandatory vaccinations, and enforced contact tracing and quarantining, mask wearing and lockdowns when necessary.
Shockingly, we've totally neglected the issue of long COVID sequelae which likely impact over 10 percent of persons infected with COVID even if their cases are mild or even asymptomatic. Infected individuals, including children, may, as with the HIV virus, harbor the COVID virus for the rest of their lives and/or experience irreparable organ, including brain, damage. See post 447 in this thread.
Rationalizing our poor COVID response by ridiculously comparing our experience with Europe is not a path towards competence and superiority. We should be comparing our policies with those of the most successful nations, especially democracies such as Australia, Korea, and, yes, Canada.
Frighteningly, our COVID public health policies pale against those martialed by earlier generations of Americans against smallpox, polio and even TB. Ohioans and Americans remain unacceptably vulnerable to the existing COVID variants let alone new "novel" viruses, including a "monster" COVID variant that evades our current immunities, let alone an engineered virus unleashed upon us by an enemy, which may very well have occurred with the COVID virus, whether intentionally or unintentionally by the Chinese.
Amazingly, few persons in the U.S. have discussed how the Chinese do NOT tolerate the COVID virus in their society to even a greater extent than the Australians. They will enforce mandatory testing of millions of residents of any area where COVID cases emerge, locking down the economy until they can quarantine any infected individuals and stamp out the infection. I worry the Chinese understand much more about the long term effects of COVID sequelae than do our IMO pathetically inept leaders, including those in the Biden administration, even if the Biden COVID team is far superior to Trump and his anti-science sycophants.
Does the Chinese response to the COVID epidemic make you proud to be an American, or optimistic about the future of our younger generations? Just consider the massive damage to the U.S. educational system and the educational deficiencies inflicted on our younger generations by the disastrous U.S. response to the COVID epidemic compared to China.
Right appreciable better…not when compared to China or Australia lol. When compared to those countries, EU and USA are right in the same boat. And what does that tell you about places like the Czech Republic? Is it also run by trumpies? And the using the EU as a definition for economically powerful Europe is ridiculous. The UK isn’t in the EU, nor is Switzerland or Norway. No matter what way you piece it, EU’s done a lot worse compared to New Zealand and Australia to the point where it’s more comparable to the US than them.
This also might be going into semantics however. Because I don’t even think I’m halfway disagreeing with you. I just see the EU response compared to their death rates as being more comparable to the US than Australia or China.
Right appreciable better…not when compared to China or Australia lol. When compared to those countries, EU and USA are right in the same boat. And what does that tell you about places like the Czech Republic? Is it also run by trumpies? And the using the EU as a definition for economically powerful Europe is ridiculous.
What are you talking about? The European Union is the third largest economy in the world, has no trade barriers, and a common currency.
The EU's vaccine acquisition strategy was a disaster that negatively impacted COVID outcomes in many EU member states such as the Czech Republic. However, the EU's vaccine acquisition efforts seemingly were far superior to those in Australia, but EU states didn't adopt Australia's stringent public health measures. E.g., in Australia, individual states even have banned travel from other Australian states, bans that remain in effect to this day, explaining why half the country has virtually no COVID infections.
BTW, its sounds as if the Czech Republic indeed may be run by a Trump wannabe, but, as I noted in my previous post, several nations in Europe had trouble acquiring any vaccines, let alone MRNA vaccines. Maybe we need a "Pirate" party in the U.S....
<<Czech President Milos Zeman, meanwhile, said he had written to his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to request a supply of Sputnik V doses after a slower than expected vaccination rollout and expects a supply to arrive "in the next few days."
Zeman was quoted by Agence France-Presse (AFP) as saying that he would also welcome China's Sinopharm vaccine in the country that has recorded over 1.2 million confirmed COVID-19 cases and more than 20,000 deaths, arguing that "vaccines have no ideology.">>
I've seen no evidence that the Czech Republic implemented Australian-like stringent public health measures, so it likely did incur a Trumpian COVID policy WITHOUT U.S.-like vaccine availability.
Obviously, if somebody had the time, it would be possible to write a very informative and worthwhile book about how COVID policies differed across the world, and about the consequences. Given that the U.S. is among the worst performers in the world, it's ridiculous IMO to seek out comparable worst performers, especially when the EU has performed better than the U.S., especially as documented since July 31 during the Delta surge.
Barring significant changes in U.S. policies and political attitudes, the U.S. and Ohio will remain COVID basket cases willing suffering a prolonged COVID endemic as the rest of the world increasingly squashes the COVID virus.
I'm visiting from out of town and I'll weigh in on my impressions of Columbus. My first reaction was the downtown is clean and pleasant. Maybe a bit smallish but the High Street is fresh and pretty to drive down.
Then there is Short North. I know people are proud of this area and yes, it's impressive the way it starts right on the edge of downtown and up to Ohio State. But I found a bit congested and dare I say "tacky." The black awnings that arch over the street would be cute if there were maybe two or three of them. But 40 or 50 of them is just too many. They should replace them with hanging lights and just keep the awnings as entrances on both end. And this area has lots of chain stores and restaurants, fast food and college bars. In other words it's busy but not cultured.
Next I saw German Village. Very cool. While driving through the neighborhood at night, suddenly there are restaurants and bars with neat outdoor patio areas right in the middle of the neighborhood. Now we're talking. Authentic, tasteful, cultured, and urbane.
On my next day I went to Bexley. Holy cow. It reminds me of Pasadena, California - an entire town of elegant 1920's mansions. And then I visited the Botanical Garden. Very nice, lovely. As I drove around the surrounding neighborhood, which I assumed would be dangerous, I realized that many of these homes are absolutely redone and look great. The homes from I'm assuming around the 1890s are prettier than the ones south of the Ohio State campus. And Broad Street going west from downtown past Franklin Park and on to Bexley feels far more low-key, tasteful, and cultured than High Street and Short North.
If Columbus were only downtown, Franklin Park, Bexley, and the Ohio State campus it would be beautiful with just those areas alone. The other thing I liked was the road that runs along the river up to downtown Dublin. Beautiful drive. Overall I've enjoyed my visit.
I'm visiting from out of town and I'll weigh in on my impressions of Columbus. My first reaction was the downtown is clean and pleasant. Maybe a bit smallish but the High Street is fresh and pretty to drive down.
Then there is Short North. I know people are proud of this area and yes, it's impressive the way it starts right on the edge of downtown and up to Ohio State. But I found a bit congested and dare I say "tacky." The black awnings that arch over the street would be cute if there were maybe two or three of them. But 40 or 50 of them is just too many. They should replace them with hanging lights and just keep the awnings as entrances on both end. And this area has lots of chain stores and restaurants, fast food and college bars. In other words it's busy but not cultured.
Next I saw German Village. Very cool. While driving through the neighborhood at night, suddenly there are restaurants and bars with neat outdoor patio areas right in the middle of the neighborhood. Now we're talking. Authentic, tasteful, cultured, and urbane.
On my next day I went to Bexley. Holy cow. It reminds me of Pasadena, California - an entire town of elegant 1920's mansions. And then I visited the Botanical Garden. Very nice, lovely. As I drove around the surrounding neighborhood, which I assumed would be dangerous, I realized that many of these homes are absolutely redone and look great. The homes from I'm assuming around the 1890s are prettier than the ones south of the Ohio State campus. And Broad Street going west from downtown past Franklin Park and on to Bexley feels far more low-key, tasteful, and cultured than High Street and Short North.
If Columbus were only downtown, Franklin Park, Bexley, and the Ohio State campus it would be beautiful with just those areas alone. The other thing I liked was the road that runs along the river up to downtown Dublin. Beautiful drive. Overall I've enjoyed my visit.
Nice post! I hosted many out of town visitors and, almost always, German Village was what won them over on Columbus. It's a gem of a neighborhood and probably what I miss the most about living there.
I definitely see what you're saying about the Short North. I had a lot of fun times there but I definitely got a bit bored of it after a few years. I do wish there were no chains there and it was 100% local.
The problem with this reasoning is that people know history.
We aren't ignorant.
We all know the reasons for population loss in Cleveland during this period (and Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Chicago, Cincinnati, St. Louis etc.), and its not because they "fell behind" Columbus in any meaningful way. Thanks for helping to illustrate my point from an earlier post that population growth is the only argument for Columbus.
What kind of skills does it take to be a 2.1 million metro area with no train station?
No one is actually suggesting Cleveland "fell behind", they're arguing that Columbus improved itself regardless of what Cleveland was or wasn't doing. Every Cleveland homer/defender here has long argued from the standpoint that Columbus' success has come at the expense of Cleveland's, but I think that's always just been an excuse. Why has Cincinnati managed to find a successful path again, but many other Ohio communities, including Cleveland, have yet to? Couldn't it just be that each individual city controls and has controlled its own destiny?
And hasn't train/transit traffic in Cleveland been plummeting in recent years (pre-pandemic)?
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