[MikefromCT]

Originally Posted by CTbrooktrout

Any sources to prove this? I believe you and hear it myself, especially from former Westchester County NY residents. But would be interested in reading up on any studies and digging deeper into the numbers.

Well yeah, I was really basing this off what I've seen - which is alot of people migrate away from either Cali or the NYC metro area, settle here and think it's a steal. I'm so sorry I DON'T have the numbers on this - I'd like to know myself. I know there are studies that track how many left the state vs. how many came in - I'd be very interested to know who came here and from where, and where they are now.

Originally Posted by CTbrooktrout

Focusing more on the middle class and upper middle class in FFC, I wonder where the number really is. Take out the people who inflate the number such as any billionaires. Any way we can look at the income per age group and average salary for people who work in particular industries?

Just focus on upper middle class - there IS no middle class in lower FFC anymore.

[Stylo]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

I was surprised, too. Even more surprising? The fact that wealthy residents are moving here from other states and find this state to be a bargain.

Other states? Like what? There are very few places as expensive as lower FFC. Westchester is one, and taxes are much higher, but the property values are actually a bit lower than your Greenwich, Darien, New Canaan towns. And parts of northern Westchester are quite a bit cheaper than lower FFC. Where else do you have then? Massachusettes? Cheaper. Northern NJ? Cheaper. The only place I can think of that's truly more expensive is Manhattan, parts of Los Angeles county (Santa Barbara, for instance), and maybe parts of San Francisco bay. But you saying "moving here from other states and find this state to be a bargain" is slightly misleading as there are HUGE swaths of NY state that are cheaper than anything in CT. Same in California.

Overall, it's hard to top CT in cost of living. I'd guess NJ would be a contender.

[FortRyan]

Originally Posted by Stylo

Other states? Like what? There are very few places as expensive as lower FFC. Westchester is one, and taxes are much higher, but the property values are actually a bit lower than your Greenwich, Darien, New Canaan towns. And parts of northern Westchester are quite a bit cheaper than lower FFC. Where else do you have then? Massachusettes? Cheaper. Northern NJ? Cheaper. The only place I can think of that's truly more expensive is Manhattan, parts of Los Angeles county (Santa Barbara, for instance), and maybe parts of San Francisco bay. But you saying "moving here from other states and find this state to be a bargain" is slightly misleading as there are HUGE swaths of NY state that are cheaper than anything in CT. Same in California.

Overall, it's hard to top CT in cost of living. I'd guess NJ would be a contender.

Hi Stylo. I wanted to post and say that I agree. We have only been here a few weeks and everything - literally EVERYTHING - is more expensive than where we moved from. It seems like Everytime we go somewhere, the reaction to the price is:

We've accepted it and love it here so far, but we continue to experience sticker shock!

[MikefromCT]

Originally Posted by Stylo

Other states? Like what? There are very few places as expensive as lower FFC. Westchester is one, and taxes are much higher, but the property values are actually a bit lower than your Greenwich, Darien, New Canaan towns. And parts of northern Westchester are quite a bit cheaper than lower FFC. Where else do you have then? Massachusettes? Cheaper. Northern NJ? Cheaper. The only place I can think of that's truly more expensive is Manhattan, parts of Los Angeles county (Santa Barbara, for instance), and maybe parts of San Francisco bay. But you saying "moving here from other states and find this state to be a bargain" is slightly misleading as there are HUGE swaths of NY state that are cheaper than anything in CT. Same in California.

Overall, it's hard to top CT in cost of living. I'd guess NJ would be a contender.

I'm talking about the ones who left for the expensive areas you outlined. A number of people here who have posted about their experiences in lower FFC after leaving NYC, Westchester or Jersey have said they found it less costly here and a much better quality of life. That's even more so for those who left one of those areas for Hartford/greater Hartford - where I've seen a very large influx of people from that area. Still expensive, but overall less so than where they came from. I'm not downplaying how costly this state is, but when I see $5 gas in the Bay Area, or see what people pay for rent even in an undesireable area in or around the city, then suddenly it makes sense.

And yes, if you live in upstate New York or even Albany (is that upstate?) then OF COURSE it's going to be cheap. Same if you live out west in the Inland Empire - inexpensive, but they're not anywhere nearly as desireable as their more expensive, neighboring counties.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

Still expensive, but overall less so than where they came from. I'm not downplaying how costly this state is, but when I see $5 gas in the Bay Area, or see what people pay for rent even in an undesireable area in or around the city, then suddenly it makes sense.

And yes, if you live in upstate New York or even Albany (is that upstate?) then OF COURSE it's going to be cheap. Same if you live out west in the Inland Empire - inexpensive, but they're not anywhere nearly as desireable as their more expensive, neighboring counties.

As you might know, I lived in Los Angeles for a time and nearly moved to the East Bay area last year.

$5 gas is not common ANYWHERE in California. Currently, on average, Connecticut's gas prices are HIGHER than California's ($3.80 vs $3.72 according to Gasbuddy). Usually, gas prices where I was in the LA area were about 10 cents higher than southern CT. That $5 gas you're seeing is one of a few stations in well-known areas (Cupertino, CA right next to the Apple HQ; South San Francisco; Rodeo Drive in LA). One thing that's common is if you look at nearby stations, the prices drop by about $1. Don't believe the media hype - they're just trying to make a story.

Housing prices in the Bay area are similar to, say, Fairfield town. Not cheap, but certainly not as expensive as the media and others make it out to be. One thing that has to be noted is how LITTLE people out there pay in property taxes. We looked at stats for a few homes between 5-700k and were surprised to learn that they pay half of what we do. That's huge. Also keep in mind, in California they don't need daily use of AC, heat and their electric rates are lower. They also don't pay property taxes on cars!

Anyway, re moving from expensive areas - that's certainly not happening in southern CT because it's been ranked numerous times as not only the highest income MSA in the nation, but it also has the highest rents in the nation. Stamford-Norwalk Rental Market | Norwalk Real Estate Most people in my neighborhood are from out of the region and all have told me that the COL was the biggest adjustment. One even moved here from San Diego.

Sure, if you move to CT from Manhattan proper or San Francisco proper, you'll find West Hartford affordable - but that's about it.

[Wilton2ParkAve]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

As you might know, I lived in Los Angeles for a time and nearly moved to the East Bay area last year.

$5 gas is not common ANYWHERE in California. Currently, on average, Connecticut's gas prices are HIGHER than California's ($3.80 vs $3.72 according to Gasbuddy). Usually, gas prices where I was in the LA area were about 10 cents higher than southern CT. That $5 gas you're seeing is one of a few stations in well-known areas (Cupertino, CA right next to the Apple HQ; South San Francisco; Rodeo Drive in LA). One thing that's common is if you look at nearby stations, the prices drop by about $1. Don't believe the media hype - they're just trying to make a story.

Housing prices in the Bay area are similar to, say, Fairfield town. Not cheap, but certainly not as expensive as the media and others make it out to be. One thing that has to be noted is how LITTLE people out there pay in property taxes. We looked at stats for a few homes between 5-700k and were surprised to learn that they pay half of what we do. That's huge. Also keep in mind, in California they don't need daily use of AC, heat and their electric rates are lower. They also don't pay property taxes on cars!

Anyway, re moving from expensive areas - that's certainly not happening in southern CT because it's been ranked numerous times as not only the highest income MSA in the nation, but it also has the highest rents in the nation. Stamford-Norwalk Rental Market | Norwalk Real Estate Most people in my neighborhood are from out of the region and all have told me that the COL was the biggest adjustment. One even moved here from San Diego.

Sure, if you move to CT from Manhattan proper or San Francisco proper, you'll find West Hartford affordable - but that's about it.

This is mostly spot on, but California remains more expensive than CT for most as a result of:

1. Sales Tax: Base rate in California is 7.25%, but many counties and municipalities exceed 9%.
2. Income tax: Top rate is freaking 12.3%. Even if you are earning just $125,000 the blended rate will be over 8% exceeding CT by at least 2%.
3. Housing costs still in the stratosphere, particularly if you look at a price to income ratio. Also several desirability counties in Cali have median prices 200-400,000 above Fairfield county.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

This is mostly spot on, but California remains more expensive than CT for most as a result of:

1. Sales Tax: Base rate in California is 7.25%, but many counties and municipalities exceed 9%.
2. Income tax: Top rate is freaking 12.3%. Even if you are earning just $125,000 the blended rate will be over 8% exceeding CT by at least 2%.
3. Housing costs still in the stratosphere, particularly if you look at a price to income ratio. Also several desirability counties in Cali have median prices 200-400,000 above Fairfield county.

1. Yes, sales tax is very high. But an extra 1.25% is not enough to give me a shock.
2. Main reason why we scratched the move there - that and the failing public schools. No thanks.
3. So many sellers out there are holding on tight to 2005 prices. Those homes aren't selling. The realtor we spoke with suggested we look at homes that have been on the market for >6 mos out there because, by that time, the sellers have faced reality and will either short sale it or start negotiations. That's unheard of, and it's a little sad. We did find that even though the price was about 15-25% higher on average, the taxes made up for it.

[Wilton2ParkAve]

With respect to number 3, I based my statement on actual prices of recently sold homes. Also the sales tax is 9% in the more desirability municipalities, so the 1.25% statement is thrown out.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

With respect to number 3, I based my statement on actual prices of recently sold homes. Also the sales tax is 9% in the more desirability municipalities, so the 1.25% statement is thrown out.

You also have to consider that some of the homes being sold are massive estates in counties like Marin and Santa Barbara.

Re sales tax, it's not thrown out because it's accurate. The vast majority of counties in CA are between 7-8%. There are very few with 9%+.

In the area I was looking, sales tax was 7.5%. An extra 1.5% - not a huge deal. The difference per year is probably less than our car tax.

[Wilton2ParkAve]

San Francisco 8.75%
San Diego 9%
San Mateo 8.5%
LA 9%-9.5%

Also, median price essentially eliminates the impact of massive estates. Similar to FFC, which clocks in at a $379,000 median price for 3Q '12

San Francisco County $755,000.
San Mateo $633,000
Marin $702,000.