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Old 09-10-2013, 12:08 PM
 
8,016 posts, read 5,858,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingo_pink View Post
I would say that college kids are also not known for their faultless decision making, yet they are still entitled to full freedom.

I don't treat 14-year olds like slaves, which apparently you do.

College kids that are of legal age are entitled to make their own choices.

I don't treat them as slaves, just the minors that they are.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,217 posts, read 107,883,295 times
Reputation: 116153
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingo_pink View Post
What if the 14-year old wanted the relationship?
It still would have been inappropriate and a violation of the teacher's terms of employment to pursue it. It's the teacher's job to be a positive role model and to keep his genitals to himself.
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,477,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
College kids that are of legal age are entitled to make their own choices.
That's circular. What the proper "legal age" ought to be is precisely the question, or part of it (the other part being whether a violation of it invariably ought to be ruthlessly punished, and so far nobody's offered a reason for either point that stands thirty seconds of consideration.)
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:06 PM
 
8,016 posts, read 5,858,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
That's circular. What the proper "legal age" ought to be is precisely the question, or part of it (the other part being whether a violation of it invariably ought to be ruthlessly punished, and so far nobody's offered a reason for either point that stands thirty seconds of consideration.)
That may be circular in your view, but that's what is generally accepted in the United States. You cannot enter into a contract as a 17 year-old, but you can as an 18 year-old.

Everything south of age 18 is a minor, and everything age 18 and north is a legal aged person.

Until there is a groundswell of support to lower/raise that age, then that's what we're left to deal with. And if you're into sex with underage girls/boys, know that the legal system takes a pretty dim view of that, and the sentences can be fairly lengthy.

Sometimes you don't need a reason why, sometimes you simply have to accept the law for what it is.

I'm not sure I want to know this, but do you feel the legal age is correct at 18, and if not, why?
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,477,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
That may be circular in your view, but that's what is generally accepted in the United States. You cannot enter into a contract as a 17 year-old, but you can as an 18 year-old.
Sex as a "contract" is illegal in 49 states and parts of the 50th, so contract law does not apply.

Quote:
Everything south of age 18 is a minor, and everything age 18 and north is a legal aged person.
That already (and historically) does not correspond with the minimum age for driving, for drinking, and in most states, for sex.

Quote:
Until there is a groundswell of support to lower/raise that age, then that's what we're left to deal with. And if you're into sex with underage girls/boys, know that the legal system takes a pretty dim view of that, and the sentences can be fairly lengthy.
You guys are the ones whining about the sentence in this case.

Quote:
Sometimes you don't need a reason why, sometimes you simply have to accept the law for what it is.
I'm glad Martin Luther King didn't adopt that view.

Quote:
I'm not sure I want to know this, but do you feel the legal age is correct at 18, and if not, why?
For what, voting? Contracts? You can't be talking about sex, since the age of consent is 16 in most states, and has been 13 or 14 in many states within our own lifetime.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:56 AM
 
421 posts, read 880,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
College kids that are of legal age are entitled to make their own choices.

I don't treat them as slaves, just the minors that they are.


OK, well then don't hide behind the "it's because of their fault-filled decision making" excuse.

And calling someone a minor in the first place is already referring to them as a second class citizen at best.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:58 AM
 
421 posts, read 880,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
It still would have been inappropriate and a violation of the teacher's terms of employment to pursue it. It's the teacher's job to be a positive role model and to keep his genitals to himself.

The school should not be able to control what the teacher does on his off-hours unless he is getting paid during those off-hours.

You don't work for your employer 24/7/365.

I think it's a dumb decision, but the teacher shouldn't have to consider everyone else's opinion.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:00 AM
 
421 posts, read 880,057 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
That may be circular in your view, but that's what is generally accepted in the United States. You cannot enter into a contract as a 17 year-old, but you can as an 18 year-old.

Everything south of age 18 is a minor, and everything age 18 and north is a legal aged person.

Until there is a groundswell of support to lower/raise that age, then that's what we're left to deal with. And if you're into sex with underage girls/boys, know that the legal system takes a pretty dim view of that, and the sentences can be fairly lengthy.

Sometimes you don't need a reason why, sometimes you simply have to accept the law for what it is.

I'm not sure I want to know this, but do you feel the legal age is correct at 18, and if not, why?


It's "accepted" because the voting electorate is fairly ignorant about civic issues in general, so when civil liberties are taken away, no one notices, because 90% of the population is talking about Miley Cyrus.

That doesn't mean that 100% of the population automatically accepts the rules on the books.

Wow. You don't need a reason why, you just need to accept it?

I wish your state passed a law with a 98% tax on income. Would you just pay it because it's the law?
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 1,146,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
That may be circular in your view, but that's what is generally accepted in the United States. You cannot enter into a contract as a 17 year-old, but you can as an 18 year-old.

Emancipated minors can. And therefore the court system itself has ruled that teens under the age of 18 can legally decide for themselves issues that many are arguing that only adults can decide.

Everything south of age 18 is a minor, and everything age 18 and north is a legal aged person.

But for what?
Voting? Yes.
Renting a car? No.
Drinking? No.
Sex? In which State? How old is the other partner? Is the partner a minor as well? etc. etc.
Driving? No.
Your statement is too vague, and really subjective.

Until there is a groundswell of support to lower/raise that age, then that's what we're left to deal with. And if you're into sex with underage girls/boys, know that the legal system takes a pretty dim view of that, and the sentences can be fairly lengthy.

I don't think that's really the issue. It has more to do with the subjectiveness & the variety of the laws in the US concerning this topic. I don't think the argument is that what he - the male teacher - did was bad. It was morally, legally, and ethically wrong (legally - against the laws passed in that specific state; ethically - crossed the line with student/teacher relationship; morally - well, maybe that's the debate, especially if the teen was a willing participant.) Doesn't excuse him from the consequences at all, but it does open the dabate concerning the subjectiveness of the laws.

Sometimes you don't need a reason why, sometimes you simply have to accept the law for what it is.

That sounds good to say, but totally ridiculous when seen from the civil rights/prohibition/suffrage/child labor/etc point of view. Rosa Parks would feel insulted by your comment.

I'm not sure I want to know this, but do you feel the legal age is correct at 18, and if not, why?
My own personal opinion: There has to be a line drawn somewhere, in oder to set limits. As a male teacher, I find that student/teacher physical relationships are wrong. PERIOD! No if's, and's, or but's. After graduation, when the student is no longer under a position of power/authority from the teacher, then all's fair, but definitely not during.

As for outside the student/teacher relationship, where do you draw the line? What's legal in one state for a couple to get married could get them arrested in another state if they moved. That is totally wrong. I'm not sure there could ever be a "fair" and universal law for our country. Maturity is varied and subjective - and not just for the younger partner. So I personally couldn't answer your question, but it is assumed that states would draw a line somewhere - and it will never be fair in all cases.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,217 posts, read 107,883,295 times
Reputation: 116153
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingo_pink View Post
The school should not be able to control what the teacher does on his off-hours unless he is getting paid during those off-hours.

You don't work for your employer 24/7/365.

I think it's a dumb decision, but the teacher shouldn't have to consider everyone else's opinion.
Right, so those school coaches and Boy Scout leaders who invite boys on "special" trips or overnights outside of school/Scouting hours and molest them are in no violation of professional ethics, none at all.

On whose planet?!

Get a clue; it's not ok to use a job that puts you into contact with minors to gain access to and ID potential targets for sexual activity, then schedule that activity for "after hours".

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