Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again yes it is routine. It is one of the most common surgical procedures preformed on children. 530,000 per year are preformed in the US alone. Thats 1,500 per day. You can't get any more routine then that. Only one in 15,000 results in a death like this. Which is just the normal surgical screwup rate in the US. Somebody screwed up to make that girl, the one in 15,000. And you people expect the hospital to just come out and say, yep we screwed up. That girls death should not have happened. The hospital is just trying to cover their asses. They will be sued, and they will settle.
Remember that the girl had two other surgical procedures done at the same time and had several pre-existing conditions (such as obesity) that increase the risk of any surgery and recovery.
My husband used to be a medical malpractice attorney, he originally worked on the side of the hospitals and doctors insurance companies and in later years worked on the side of the families of the dead or injured patients.
It is a misconception that all deaths in surgery are caused by "screw ups" sometimes the medical staff does every thing 100% correct and a death or serious injury may still occur. Families frequently look for someone to "blame" and can't, or won't, blame God so they look for someone else to blame.
Look at it this way, sometimes a perfectly healthy child or adult will die of an unknown reason, who is there to blame in that case? Maybe, in this case, the hospital or a doctor did something wrong, maybe the parents were not truthful about her pre-existing conditions, maybe something was over looked in post operative care, or maybe everyone did everything right and she was one of the tiny percentage of people who simply, inexplicable, die during or after surgery.
My husband's best friend was in his early 50s, an avid runner, ate healthy foods, took excellent care of his body, was in perfect health, no illnesses, took no medications and never used drugs or alcohol. The friend had just had a complete physical, stress test, heart work-ups, every usual test plus more and less than a week later, the friend had a massive heart attack and was dead in seconds. Why did he die? Who do you blame? Who do you sue? Sometimes, you and everyone else can do everything right and you, or your friend or family member still die.
But, the point is Jahi is dead. It is very sad. It must be horrible for her family. But, feeding tubes, breathing tubes, machines pumping blood, judges proclamations and prayer do not bring a dead person back to life.
Last edited by germaine2626; 12-31-2013 at 09:26 PM..
Insurance will not cover it at all. She has been declared dead, and insurance is for the living.
Too bad the girl wasn't pregnant and living in Texas. Texas will keep a pregnant woman on life-support even against her and her family's wishes. But thats in Republican Land where no amount of money is too much to save the life of a fetus.
Again yes it is routine. It is one of the most common surgical procedures preformed on children. 530,000 per year are preformed in the US alone. Thats 1,500 per day. You can't get any more routine then that. Only one in 15,000 results in a death like this. Which is just the normal surgical screwup rate in the US. Somebody screwed up to make that girl, the one in 15,000. And you people expect the hospital to just come out and say, yep we screwed up.That girls death should not have happened. The hospital is just trying to cover their asses. They will be sued, and they will settle.
The girls death could have been 100% prevented, you're correct. The family could have eaten healthy and exercised so she wasn't obese. She most likely would have never needed the surgery because the sleep apnea would not have been an issue. She very likely also had diabetes and high blood pressure given her obesity both of which could have been controlled with diet, so yes her death could have been prevented.
Again yes it is routine. It is one of the most common surgical procedures preformed on children. 530,000 per year are preformed in the US alone. Thats 1,500 per day. You can't get any more routine then that. Only one in 15,000 results in a death like this. Which is just the normal surgical screwup rate in the US. Somebody screwed up to make that girl, the one in 15,000. And you people expect the hospital to just come out and say, yep we screwed up. That girls death should not have happened. The hospital is just trying to cover their asses. They will be sued, and they will settle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom
Yeah, obviously they did something to cause their daughters death, so they could sue the hospital. Somebody will always try and find a way to blame the victims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696
The girls death could have been 100% prevented, you're correct. Thefamily could have eaten healthy and exercised so she wasn't obese. She most likely would have never needed the surgery because the sleep apnea would not have been an issue. She very likely also had diabetes and high blood pressure given her obesity both of which could have been controlled with diet, so yes her death could have been prevented.
We are not trying to "blame the victim" but these are very valid points.
Obesity is a main contributor to sleep apnea. If Jahi did not have sleep apnea she would not have needed the multiple surgeries. Obesity also frequently causes complications in surgery and recovery. And, it is extremely likely, at least quite possible, that she did have high blood pressure and diabetes both cause complications with surgeries and recovery from surgeries. However, the family is not releasing her medical records so we have no way of knowing those things. We only know the limited information that the family is sharing.
A couple of weeks is enough time for YOU to accept the fact that a beloved person is gone, but you can't speak for them. If it's your child, YOU MAY NEVER ACCEPT IT but you do what you have to do.
And just because you're religious and believe in an afterlife doesn't make it any more comforting because when it comes right down to it, you are now deprived of seeing your daughter forever as long as you're in this world. The only time the mother will see her is through memories, faith, and pictures. The sheer grief that family must be feeling I can't even fathom.
I think the real problem is that the hospital didn't even give them a couple of weeks. They didn't even give them a couple of days. The hospital started pressuring them to remove life support immediately. A couple of days after that, the hospital's lawyers were in court, trying to get a court order to do it. That is going to make any family, feel like the hospital is trying to force them to agree to something they don't want to do.
The hospital should have explained the girls condition to her mother. They should have also explained that she can not remain on life-support indefinitely. Then asked the mother for a timetable, as to when the family might feel comfortable making that decision. Then they should have given the family the time they needed. The situation could have probably been resolved a lot faster that way, then going through the courts. But I guess the hospital has a legal department, and they would rather use that.
I think the real problem is that the hospital didn't even give them a couple of weeks. They didn't even give them a couple of days. The hospital started pressuring them to remove life support immediately. A couple of days after that, the hospital's lawyers were in court, trying to get a court order to do it. That is going to make any family, feel like the hospital is trying to force them to agree to something they don't want to do.
The hospital should have explained the girls condition to her mother. They should have also explained that she can not remain on life-support indefinitely. Then asked the mother for a timetable, as to when the family might feel comfortable making that decision. Then they should have given the family the time they needed. The situation could have probably been resolved a lot faster that way, then going through the courts. But I guess the hospital has a legal department, and they would rather use that.
It is my understanding that when a person is determined to be brain dead it is common practice to remove life support almost immediately. Sometimes, a hospital may delay a few hours or, in extreme situations, maybe a day if there are family members on route to the hospital, but certainly not a "few days".
According to the reports, the hospital did explain the condition and did explain that the child could not stay on life support indefinitely. The mother just refused, and is continuing to refuse, to believe the doctors that said that her daughter had died.
Last edited by germaine2626; 12-31-2013 at 10:23 PM..
I don't think it's financial...I honestly think it's because they can't come to grip with the fact that their child is in the state that she is in. Like many of us, we really don't think we would be in that "1%" that could die from a surgery. It does happen, yes, but we really just don't like to think that it would be us or our loved one. Honestly, I just don't know how I'd react if someone said to me, "Riaelise, I'm afraid your daughter...had some complications from the surgery.....I'm afraid....she's brain dead"
They can dispense all the explanations in the world...it would be very hard for me to get past three simple words "She's brain dead". We as parents always hope for even a shred of hope. A glimmer of hope. It may indeed be delusion. Truth be told, while I equate brain death to true death, for people who are distraught "brain death" might offer just this little slice of hope vs. simply saying that she's dead. As in heart stopped, body cold.
At the same time, my heart does feel for this child. She is basically gone to them. She will never kiss her mother again, or touch her, or even blink to her. She isn't even in a comatose state. She is just simply there. Yet, as a mother, sometimes you hold onto whatever you've got because you know that once your child is in the ground, she is physically gone. That's the part that I just couldn't get over.
Exactly, normal people can simply not come to grips with a sudden unexpected death in the family that quickly. Especially the death of a child like that. Even if the death was not unexpected, it would be difficult.
I blame the hospital 100% for this situation. 1. for blotching the girl's care. The girl's grandmother is a nurse herself, and wasn't satisfied with the care the girl was getting before her death. The hospital will pay for that. They will settle out of court. They always do. 2. For the incompetent hospital social worker, who rather then helping the girl's mother work through her problems, was only concerned with rushing her along, so the could free up the hospital bed.
Remember that the girl had two other surgical procedures done at the same time and had several pre-existing conditions (such as obesity) that increase the risk of any surgery and recovery.
All of the procedures she was having done, were extremely routine. Everyday type of stuff, at every hospital. Good luck to the hospital, trying to blame her obesity for their malpractice.
All that's happening is the prolonging and exacerbating of the grief. Once support is removed and she is buried they will be able to begin the grieving process. As a doctor I would seriously consider who I put on a vent after this case.
Spazkat,
I don't like the court or courts at all. I think many practitioners are thinking the same thoughts. Some are checking with malpractice carriers, some with their hospital's Ethics Boards and/or attorneys and others.
Judges, IMHO, should not be making decisions forcing Oakland Children's Hospital to prolong ventilator support. I haven't seen any legal documents so I don't know what the Court Orders cover. If a pneumonia or UT I etc., I don't know if those symptoms have to be treated or not. If her BP drops, are the Attending ordered to keep her BP at a certain level?
Tissues break down when patients are on a vent. It's just a matter of when certain systems start to break down. I hope the hospital can have this resolved before a judge orders treatment for conditions that are common in vent patients.
It is my understanding that when a person is determined to be brain dead it is common practice to remove life support almost immediately. Sometimes, a hospital may delay a few hours or, in extreme situations, maybe a day if there are family members on route to the hospital, but certainly not a "few days".
According to the reports, the hospital did explain the condition and did explain that the child could not stay on life support indefinitely. The mother just refused, and is continuing to refuse, to believe the doctors that said that her daughter had died.
I do not believe it is common practice to remove life support almost immediately and that is not what reports said. This is what reports said.
McMath is on life support as her family tries to come to terms with what has happened.
They say the situation is made even worse by the hospital staff trying to rush them to remove McMath from life support and regain use of her hospital bed.
'They just have a social worker follow me around all day long asking me "Do you have any other family that needs to see her?" like trying to put a rush on it,' Winkfield told ABC 7, breaking down.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That girls death should not have happened. The hospital is just trying to cover their asses. They will be sued, and they will settle.
Somebody will always try and find a way to blame the victims.
A Thought Many Are Having
