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Did I not say that? And more? Don't be so defensive.
As Martha Stewart might say, reading comprehension is a good thing.
P.S. There was nothing wrong with her "getting her own deal." Again, reading comprehension.....
No, you did not say that. You come off as know it all who got snarky because I mentioned something you didn't know(the death of Carson's son).
I am not the one being defensive. I simply added the fact that Rivers did try to mend fences with Carson after the loss of his son, that seems to have ruffled your feathers and stole some thunder from your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
People die everyday though the lamestream media would have you believe only celebrity is worthy of notice.
Robin Williams' passing takes precedence over that of your beloved uncle or aunt's.
The MSM is doing a great job of steering our attention away from real news and emmersing our simple minds into that of the rich and famous. We don't know what is truly going on and that's a good thing. Keep our minds on inane crap....that's the ticket.
I agree, I liked both Robin Williams and Joan Rivers but stories like this and the amount of over the top coverage is done to keep the American public's attention away from real news.
I'm in WI. Megyn has a show - The Kelly File - on the FOX News Network (an extreme right-wing cable news station similar to CNN (more middle of the road), MSNBC (extreme left-wing)). The Kelly File airs at 8 p.m. CT, right after O'Reilly. I rarely watch FOX ever, but my 47 y/o son watches FOX all the time. FOX actually exceeds the viewership of MSNBC, CNN, and a couple of others combined, last I heard.
Yes, this medical screwup is awful. In this case, a lawsuit accomplishes nothing. It doesn't bring Joan back - which is what everyone wants - and her family certainly doesn't need the money. Maybe, if there is a suit and they win, the money will go to charity. Just too, too sad.
I'm in Kentucky and our cable system keeps changing channels around. I use to watch O'Reilly but can't figure out the channels with them switching around from time to time. I enjoy FOX and don't agree with everything either. Anyways, maybe if they win the case the drug will be taken off the market or something. Thanks for the info.
I heard she and her daughter were at dinner the night after her beloved husband took his own life. They were about to order, looking at the menus and she told Melissa "If your father hadn't already killed himself he would have died if he saw these prices." I think humor is a defense mechanism for so many. She enjoyed life the way she wanted and I respect her for that.
Yes, it's a good way to go, but way too premature. Joan was totally alive and well. My son called to say he'd seen Dr. Marc Siegel on Megyn Kelly last night. Siegel was adamant - a woman that age should always be in hospital when an anesthetic is administered, with an anesthesiologist present during the procedure. Further, he said the anesthetic used on Joan is KNOWN to cause cardiac arrest and other issues in the elderly, and he would have never used it on a patient of her age. I knew when I first heard of the cardiac arrest it was the anesthetic which did it, so nothing he said surprised me.
I think both Joan and her doctors forgot her age - when you feel well all the time you tend to forget, or maybe never knew, your well-being when older is a very fragile balance - which the slightest shock can tip. I broke a leg at 65 y/o, had always been fit and well, not overweight, super high-quality diet - and couldn't believe that even 8-9 weeks later, the ankle/foot would still swell, I had pain, and still used a crutch for couple of weeks after I returned to work after eight weeks off. No way, at age 65, could I have gone to work every day with a broken leg - barely could get my meals - yet younger people do this all the time. And, my metabolism did a 180 slowdown because of that two-month layup. I've never been quite the same since.
Things change when one gets older. Joan never had a wake-up call, underwent all that cosmetic surgery without a hitch, probably never occurred to her there would be a problem. Maybe had even had that particular anesthetic before.
Easily over 10,000 posts on three QVC host pages, each paying tribute to Joan since yesterday, not to mention the QVC board, another 5000 posts among several threads.
Joan was a really big deal on QVC. A nice tribute, here (one of many):
Her loss will affect many, many people across multiple spectrums - show business, philanthropy, QVC - and all the people employed because of her. Morning Joe today featured a guest who had just done an documentary on Joan. Apparently, Joan paid for private school for her employees' kids, among a zillion other things. She had quite an empire.
This is a hard loss to take, especially because it appears to have been unnecessary - and - preventable.
There is still so much that we don't know. From what little I do know about it, I wouldn't have done the procedure in an endoscopy center. On an 81 year old, I would have had her go to the hospital to have it done. But right now, that is the only criticism I could make. We don't know if propofol was used, but frankly, propofol is used very safely in elderly people all the time, but only if it is given correctly. I give it to people in their 90s, but only after looking at their echocardiogram and EKG. Some elderly people have the heart of a young person, while others have poorly functioning hearts. If their heart doesn't pump so well, the drug has to be given very slowly because it takes a long time for the heart to pump the blood up to the brain. I have seen doctors who were fresh out of residency who overdose elderly patients because the patient is still awake and the doctor thinks he/she hasn't given enough, so they give more. Meanwhile, they have given enough with the first dose, but since it takes so long for this persons heart to get the drug to the brain, it just hasn't taken effect yet. Now they get a second dose, and next thing you know, the patient stops breathing.
Even then, any experienced anesthesiologist can easily handle a patient who stops breathing. We do it every day. During "throat" procedures, it is a little more complicated because we are sharing the patient's airway with the ENT or endoscopist, but still, an experienced anesthesiologist will recognize the signs long before there is an emergency situation and tell the endoscopist to stop what he is doing so he can step in and get the patient breathing again.
They said she had a "heart attack" (myocardial infarction). If someone has partially or fully blocked arteries in their heart, and the oxygen in their blood goes too low (i.e. if they stop breathing for a short period of time), they can have a heart attack. If there is evidence of this on the ekg, the anesthesiologist will cancel the procedure before it even starts, until a further workup is done by a cardiologist. Problem is, often the ekg is normal because the body isn't under stress when the ekg is being done.
First, I wonder if a board certified anesthesiologist was even present, and second, why it was done at an outpatient center where the support staff is very limited.
From what little I do know about it, I wouldn't have done the procedure in an endoscopy center. On an 81 year old, I would have had her go to the hospital to have it done. But right now, that is the only criticism I could make.
Any experienced anesthesiologist can easily handle a patient who stops breathing. We do it every day. During "throat" procedures, it is a little more complicated because we are sharing the patient's airway with the ENT or endoscopist, but still, an experienced anesthesiologist will recognize the signs long before there is an emergency situation and tell the endoscopist to stop what he is doing so he can step in and get the patient breathing again.
First, I wonder if a board certified anesthesiologist was even present, and second, why it was done at an outpatient center where the support staff is very limited.
Exactly. Joan had a crazy schedule. She and her docs, imo, probably didn't think the procedure was that risky it couldn't be done outpatient. She had acts and personal appearances booked, etc. I believe I read she had just performed somewhere the night before. In other words, go outpatient - 'one and done.'
Clearly, everyone forgot she was 81 years old.
Thanks for posting your thoughts. Very informative.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 09-05-2014 at 10:05 PM..
Rest in peace Joan Rivers. This is a woman who wasn't done yet, and she should have had the rest of her life to live and complete her life's endeavors. If it was the anesthetic, I hope we find out and are given the facts /truth soon.
I'm in WI. Megyn has a show - The Kelly File - on the FOX News Network (an extreme right-wing cable news station similar to CNN (more middle of the road), MSNBC (extreme left-wing)). The Kelly File airs at 8 p.m. CT, right after O'Reilly. I rarely watch FOX ever, but my 47 y/o son watches FOX all the time. FOX actually exceeds the viewership of MSNBC, CNN, and a couple of others combined, last I heard.
Yes, this medical screwup is awful. In this case, a lawsuit accomplishes nothing. It doesn't bring Joan back - which is what everyone wants - and her family certainly doesn't need the money. Maybe, if there is a suit and they win, the money will go to charity. Just too, too sad.
I"m not sure what Fox's politics has to do with Dr Siegal discussing Joan but...
There is no comparison between MSNBC and FOX.
Pew Research released a study that had Fox very close to CNN in terms of ideological programming.
MSNBC, OTOH, was almost 90% Liberal opinion. Let's face it they are proud of it and don't try and hide it or even present the other side.
Any time Fox has an interview with a conservative they also have a liberal except for the opinion shows at night are much more ideological. They also have plenty of Liberals working there like Geraldo.
Dr Marc Siegal is a private practice Internist and professor at NYU and Director of Doctor Radio at NYU and SiriusXM. Which is what qualifies him to discuss medical issues in laymen's terms on Fox. He's on Fox every Sunday on a medical panel discussing health and the latest medical news of the day. Sunday Housecall with Dr. David B. Samadi the Chairman of the Department of Urology and Chief of Robotic Surgery at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.
He's also an author and regular columnist for the Los Angeles Times, the New York Post, Slate, FoxNews.com, National Review Online and Forbes Online, and a member of the board of contributors at USA Today.
BTW, Joan was asked is she a Conservative and she said YES. Melissa butt in to say "let me clarify, we are socially Liberal but fiscally Conservative." LOL
Rest in peace Joan Rivers. This is a woman who wasn't done yet, and she should have had the rest of her life to live and complete her life's endeavors. If it was the anesthetic, I hope we find out and are given the facts /truth soon.
The worst part about this is we all sign a paper leaving no one to blame if something goes wrong after the anesthetic is given. I have signed a few of these forms for my kids. Each time I was praying harder than ever hoping nothing happened to one of them.
We know her respiratory arrest and lack of oxygen was long enough to cause a cardiac arrest. Either, she wasn't monitored properly and they failed to immediately notice. Or, they weren't equipped with the proper equipment or drugs to handle the event. Occasionally people do stop breathing, but experienced teams bring them back. This should never have happened. If the family can stand the pressure, I hope they sue the heck out of the clinic. Not for the money, but to prevent it from happening again. Some of these GI clinics are notorious for cutting corners and top notch anesthesiologists go elsewhere.
Fantastic death. Busy and working to the end. Under a sedative or anesthetic for a procedure. Never wake up. We all should be so lucky.
Sort of odd to think of it that way, but I suppose you're right... only sad part I realized is that she didn't get to say goodbye, which is probably going to be hard on Melissa for a while. So it may have been a nice passing for Joan, but I'm sure her family & friends wish they could have talked to her before she went.
Since losing someone close to me five years ago (in a much less "fortunate" manner), my one regret has been not getting that last goodbye. I did see him about two weeks earlier, but was so overcome with emotion, that I wasn't able to get out all the things I'd wanted to say. My last words to him were actually "I'll come back to see you soon," and I feel badly about not fulfilling that promise... but I remind myself that our loved ones know how we feel, even if it's not verbalized before their deaths. Anyway, enough depressing stuff for now!
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and our cable system keeps changing channels around. I use to watch O'Reilly but can't figure out the channels with them switching around from time to time. I enjoy FOX and don't agree with everything either. Anyways, maybe if they win the case the drug will be taken off the market or something. Thanks for the info.
