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Interesting the comparison to money found on the street. Which you are allowed to keep if no one claims the money after x number of days. Statutes vary in the latter. I actually have heard over the previous years in our local news of people who do find thousands of dollars and turn it in to the authorities which later is returned to the rightful owner. Typically an older person who prefers cash transactions and is forgetful mislaying the money.
But in this case the obvious trail leads to the bank and an honest person would have contacted the bank. That is the crux of the issue, an honest person was needed but not available.
Its mind boggling to see how many "Would be Thieves" there are out here in the public. You also have to wonder where their limitations are on stealing. No wonder we have jails full of people, and a lot more that would be there if they got caught. How would you like to have some of these people working for you? If they found something in your business, and could not find a record of it, they would assume it was theirs, if they found it.
Its also refreshing to see there are a lot of people here that are honest and have some moral character.
It was in his account so it was his. I myself do understand that banks make mistakes and would not spend the money. But others aren't aware. If the money is there people of lesser intelligence will spend it. I don't think the bank made a note to its customers that if a balance is in your account it may not be your money. He should not be put in jail for spending money put in his account.
Liken this situation to if he found 30k on his front porch. Who wouldn't spend the money. This is a civil issue not a criminal issue.
Nope - in fact, under the laws of wherever he lives, the car cannot even be seized.
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. Part of my legal practice consisted of collections work for a number of years.
If the bank came to me as a client this is what I would tell them:
1. First, contact the probation office of the court. Convey to the probation department that the bank has lost $30,000 as a result of this offender's actions. The bank is aware that a chunk of the money was used to purchase an automobile. Ask the probation officer to require that the automobile be surrendered to the bank as a condition of placing this man on probation, as opposed to sending him to jail/prison.
2. Second, if #1 fails. Bring a civil lawsuit against this offender for theft and conversion of property. When judgment is obtained, file in the court for what is known as a "Writ of Execution". This is an order that directs the county sheriff in the jurisdiction to seize any property owned by the offender to pay the judgment. I only make one assumption here. That assumption is that car was purchased outright and there is no significant balance owing on it. The Writ of Execution gives the county sheriff the power to sell the car at public auction to pay off all the judgment, or as much of it as possible.
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. Part of my legal practice consisted of collections work for a number of years.
If the bank came to me as a client this is what I would tell them:
1. First, contact the probation office of the court. Convey to the probation department that the bank has lost $30,000 as a result of this offender's actions. The bank is aware that a chunk of the money was used to purchase an automobile. Ask the probation officer to require that the automobile be surrendered to the bank as a condition of placing this man on probation, as opposed to sending him to jail/prison.
2. Second, if #1 fails. Bring a civil lawsuit against this offender for theft and conversion of property. When judgment is obtained, file in the court for what is known as a "Writ of Execution". This is an order that directs the county sheriff in the jurisdiction to seize any property owned by the offender to pay the judgment. I only make one assumption here. That assumption is that car was purchased outright and there is no significant balance owing on it. The Writ of Execution gives the county sheriff the power to sell the car at public auction to pay off all the judgment, or as much of it as possible.
I got it from a news article.
Quote:
Investigator Doug Martin took out the felony warrant when Fields did not return the money. Bank officials had told the investigator they wanted to prosecute if Fields didn’t return the money by March 19.
The BMW cannot be seized as part of the investigation, Burns said.
So if someone accidentally left something in your car then it's yours, since you are responsible for what comes in/out of your car?
I'm sure you've plenty heard the stories about valuable items (including cash) being left on planes and/or at checkpoints only to be kept by airline staff and/or TSA. Right? Do you know why that is? It's because for any NON-consumer entity, they're assumed to be authorized to keep whatever they want without real punishment. Consumers are assumed guilty regardless. That's the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee
You failed to contact your employer or ADP to find out the correct "owner" of this $500; you took it and spent it, and blame the bank when they ask for it back?
Let me help you through your confusion. The pay stub reflected the extra $500. That's the problem - ADP said it was valid money. It wasn't until the bank sent me a notice that I realized where the screwup happened.
The whole issue started because ADP said I should be paid X when I really should have been paid X-$500. But when my pay stub shows something, I should be able to trust that.
In ADP's defense that sort of egregious error has not happened ever again, and I've since worked at over 10 companies that all use ADP. But I wasn't the only one it happened to nor was I the only that assumed it was some sort of back pay or something. Again, I was 18.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
You could have asked the bank.
I did...when the bank notified me it was in error. That was months after the fact. I'm not to call a bank to question a paystub from a totally different company that, for all intents and purposes, shouldn't have such an error. It's a paystub FFS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
You could have asked your employer.
Why? I'm not going to ask my employer about every single pay stub I get. Do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
Instead you chose to take money that you couldn't account for, and assumed you wouldn't get caught.
Nope. I took money that was deposited into MY account by MY payroll company on behalf of MY employer. Frankly a better way of handling the whole situation would have been to simply withhold the next check, or deduct my vacation hours equivalent.
We're not talking about some random bank teller key error here. ADP is an almost 100% computer-based company. It's totally illogical to expect that they could make such an error. It IS, however, likely that someone missed paying me for some hours (since I was hourly) or some overtime (since I did have instances where I wasn't paid for overtime).
I don't regret not questioning anything.
I later worked at another company that was sales based. Left 5 months in. The commissions were 3 months delayed; I was told verbally when I left that company that, if I chose to leave, I forfeit any back commissions.
3 months later, I started getting commission checks mailed to me; sum total $30,000 all told, one every two weeks. I didn't question it either, because fundamentally, the company could not enforce screwing me out of commissions that I'd earned; the clause was unenforceable and they knew it, thus they paid me. I didn't question it, I didn't have to.
My distrust of companies is simply that I understand "The System" is designed to favor banks, not customers. A bank can never be "put out" even when they screw up. It's wrong, but it is what it is. I just understand that, and pay closer attention to make sure I can see when I'm about to screwed, so I adjust accordingly.
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. Part of my legal practice consisted of collections work for a number of years.
If the bank came to me as a client this is what I would tell them:
1. First, contact the probation office of the court. Convey to the probation department that the bank has lost $30,000 as a result of this offender's actions. The bank is aware that a chunk of the money was used to purchase an automobile. Ask the probation officer to require that the automobile be surrendered to the bank as a condition of placing this man on probation, as opposed to sending him to jail/prison.
2. Second, if #1 fails. Bring a civil lawsuit against this offender for theft and conversion of property. When judgment is obtained, file in the court for what is known as a "Writ of Execution". This is an order that directs the county sheriff in the jurisdiction to seize any property owned by the offender to pay the judgment. I only make one assumption here. That assumption is that car was purchased outright and there is no significant balance owing on it. The Writ of Execution gives the county sheriff the power to sell the car at public auction to pay off all the judgment, or as much of it as possible.
Exactly. Have seen that done several times. Just because it can not be seized as "part" of the investigation does not mean it can not be seized at all. The Law has more than one "tool" for making the victim of a crime "whole" and not letting the Criminal profit from illegal activity. Good post.
Why? I'm not going to ask my employer about every single pay stub I get. Do you?
Every pay stub? Of course not. But if it was wildly out of synch with what I expected, then yes. I'm sure you would have been on the phone immediately if it had been less than you expected.
The number of people who rationalize away thievery in this thread is disheartening, to say the least.
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hopefully the guy that lost the money can sell the car, and get some of his money back
