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OP: what a funny logic. How is banning a ban (that is, allowing people the freedom to use a plastic ban for any purpose) intruding on people's decisions? You intrude on people's decisions, as several local AZ city councils have done, by prohibiting people from using certain things or charging a fee to use what was once "free." I can see if you wrote that the AZ's legislature's move here threaten the decisions of local city councils, but when those city councils truly threaten people's decisions, the legislature has every right to shut them down.
Once again, I'm confused at how the supposedly conservative party in this country wants to use its powers to intrude on people's decisions.
I'll always be baffled at the Republican need to stick their noses into women's reproductive business, but now the State Legislators want to ban the local jurisdictions from passing a ban on plastic bags?!?! Who does this ban benefit? I thought conservatives were all for the smallest levels of government possible. I don't completely support a ban, but I get it from an administrative perspective.
To me, it looks like the conservatives are trying to prevent Nanny State measures where the people are being told what they and cannot do, what is and isn't good for them.
Nothing that I can think of offhand. Why? Is someone proposing a law that would make it illegal to do so? If so then I will gladly join you in opposing it.
No, but there would be no need for plastic bag bans... or bans on bag bans if more people did that (used canvas bags, that is).
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Is it a ban on plastic bags or charging a fee on the to pay for the cost to clean up ones that clog sewer drains? Nothing is free, lots of things are more expensive because of the added cost to clean up for yahoos who won't do it for themselves.
I've been using reusable grocery bags for years and I've survived. You do need to wash them periodically to prevent spread of germs. I like them as much for practicality as for environmental benefits: you never have to worry about a bag splitting and your groceries falling to the ground.
No one is banning a ban. The legislature would revoke or repeal whatever law was passed which gave retailers an incentive to charge for plastic bags rather than give them away - paper or plastic?...ever heard the term?
Someone got paid to pass the initial legislature and a bunch of green weenies probably sang folk songs late into the night in celebration thinking they had won some victory.
As I've said repeatedly, that's not what the legislation's primary purpose. Only one municipality in AZ has such a ban, so it's clearly designed to preemptively keep municipalities from passing laws like it.
There are times when I lean more towards the conservative side of issues, but then I see the hostility and anger so many conservatives seem to harbor. The underlined part of your post is a mild example of it. Sad really that adults can't disagree on something without stooping to name calling.
Arizona's legislature is ******* stupid. The Senate president won't allow a cell phone ban while driving to be a voted on bill because "it will create too many laws" when they want to make a law to ban bans on plastic bags by individual towns.
Republican peans to the glories of the concept of local control, or subsidiarity (ie, the notion that issues should be solved at lowest level of government capable of doing so), are entirely rhetorical and nothing more.
Here's an example - for all the bleating about 'states rights' regarding marriage, they repeatedly tried (and failed) to push through a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting states from allowing same-sex marriage. Federal Marriage Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Such examples are endless. And the notion that the legislature of the entire state of Arizona should decide how, for example, Flagstaff regulates grocery bags is yet another example of the usual suspects ignoring their own stated political philosophies when they find them inconvenient.
It would be awesome if we could actually have intelligent discussions about things "controversial" without resorting to political toeing or scare tactics (it will cause a loss of jobs/it pollutes the environment). There are sound, logical, reasons found on both sides of this argument; narrowmlndness withstanding.
The plastic bag industry in the U.S. alone has an estimated worth of $1B...just for plastic bags! Make what you want of that but here is one thing that should be glaringly obvious to anyone with two firing brain cells:
These bags ain't free.
As a consumer, by shopping at a grocery store, you ARE paying for those bags as the cost is incorporated into the pricings of the products. That is exactly why [most] are not charged an additional fee at checkout, why many stores issue a "refund" of 5 - 10¢ per own bag used--because it will ultimately not hurt their bottom line and really, it helps slow their need to purchase more bags which in reality helps save the store money, and why additional fees are ludicrous no matter which side of the political argument one falls.
The above is true for paper bags, as well.
As for the environment, plastic bags were once considered a one-use item. Not so much these days but the overwhelming majority are ending up in landfills. With that, the plastics used are becoming ever more recyclable AND biodegradable, in particular with new technology and understanding that allows manufacturers to use plastics derived from plants. At some point soon, that will be the norm and a win-win for all except the most extreme personalities.
Plastic bags are also made largely, but not entirely, from natural gas, not oil, by the way. The material used for production comes from the "waste" of refinement, and to be frank, is something that all ready exists even if plastic bags become 100% extinct. Just like like gasoline is a by-product of oil refinement, and thus the impetus for automobile engines (the original engines could run off any liquid that was combustable and why you can modify engines to run off something such as used cooking oil), and kerosene a by product of gasoline refinement, you gotta do something with the stuff. Just like gasoline-dependent engines, that is how plastics became so prominent in our lives.
To the comments about reusable bags being the source of "contamination". Well, that is just silly and you all know it. For one, because it just is, and for two, who is to say that people do not rub their mouths, noses, behinds, etc. just before they touch that head of lettuce? An adult might know better, but what about a child? Not to mention that grocery stores have restrooms...and ya'll should be washing your fruits and veggies at home, anyways.
...or that a person with an old, dirty, shirt on...even though it make look and "smell" clean (that is, not obvious)... Or the shoes....that are tracking in all sorts of nasties....
One last take-away; the plastic bag industry "itself" claims that in locales where a flat-out ban or per-bag-fee has been implemented, plastic bag use at grocery checkout has declined by up to 90%, while at the same time the net sales of plastic bags in these same locations have seen an increase by as much as 400%. Job loss....I don't think so.
It doesn't surprise me that Arizona would ban the ban, but I don't live there and won't lose sleep over it. I do find it disturbing that local jurisdictions will not be allowed to have a say in the matter, however.
Republican peans to the glories of the concept of local control, or subsidiarity (ie, the notion that issues should be solved at lowest level of government capable of doing so), are entirely rhetorical and nothing more.
Here's an example - for all the bleating about 'states rights' regarding marriage, they repeatedly tried (and failed) to push through a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting states from allowing same-sex marriage. Federal Marriage Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Such examples are endless. And the notion that the legislature of the entire state of Arizona should decide how, for example, Flagstaff regulates grocery bags is yet another example of the usual suspects ignoring their own stated political philosophies when they find them inconvenient.
You do realize that constitutional amendments ultimately require the approval of the states?
Just one question: what is wrong with using canvas bags for groceries? Simply take a couple with you each time you go shopping, and no need to multiply the plastic.
No one argues with that and most of us are saying we should do that. That isn't the point of the OP.
Again: The point is that we have a problem with so many municipalities stuffed into one area called "Greater Phoenix" (and Greater Tucson, coming to us soon!) that it would be an incredibly confusing, costly and insane situation if each of the dozen or so municipalities within Greater Phoenix decided to do something different with this particular environmental issue.
Greater Phoenix has 4.3 million people and is 585 square miles (give or take). When I drive to my friend's house in the southern part of Greater Phoenix (41 miles south of me), I drive through Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Tempe, Chandler and Mesa. I might decide on part of that drive to swing by a grocery store to pick something up. I frankly can't tell which town I'm in if I'm not on the Freeway. So if I forgot to toss my reusable bags in the car, and if that particular municipality essentially said, "bring your own bags or tough luck!" What would I do? I'd figure it out, but it's a Royal PITA. It's also bad for business, bad for tourism, and bad for people on the lower end of the income spectrum. Sure, we can bring our bags. Most of us do. And most places now sell them for a couple of bucks.
But again - the point is that we don't want the patchwork of laws being written across the Valley. That's all...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldmaiden
Because the plastic shopping bag is the Arizona State Bird. You see them in all the trees, hanging on the cacti, and gliding along the highways. It's state pride, baby!
It used to be more specific; the bird was the blue Walmart bag, but then Walmart changed their bags to white.
Do you have photos of this? The one thing people mention to me all the time is how clean this city is. I had dozens of friends here for the Superbowl and they were shocked at how clean it was. Our freeways and roads are amazingly well kept considering the number of people and vehicles we have here. I have NEVER seen plastic bags hanging on the cacti or in the trees. If I see any trash flying around, I stop and pick it up. That's how I was raised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv
It would be awesome if we could actually have intelligent discussions about things "controversial" without resorting to political toeing or scare tactics (it will cause a loss of jobs/it pollutes the environment). There are sound, logical, reasons found on both sides of this argument; narrowmlndness withstanding.
To the comments about reusable bags being the source of "contamination". Well, that is just silly and you all know it. For one, because it just is, and for two, who is to say that people do not rub their mouths, noses, behinds, etc. just before they touch that head of lettuce? An adult might know better, but what about a child? Not to mention that grocery stores have restrooms...and ya'll should be washing your fruits and veggies at home, anyways.
It doesn't surprise me that Arizona would ban the ban, but I don't live there and won't lose sleep over it. I do find it disturbing that local jurisdictions will not be allowed to have a say in the matter, however.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the idea that reusable bags could spread disease. As I said, your purse can as well. The recommendation to wash your reusable bags is still a good one. Being more conscious about where it's kept, what was in it, what it has touched and how it could contaminate kitchen surfaces is just good common sense.
Your little snarky comment about Arizona is in complete contradiction of your opening statement. I'm getting really sick of the subtle and not so subtle attacks on Arizona by the media. Why doesn't it surprise you? What exactly does that mean? What do you think the ban on creating a patchwork of bans throughout our state means? Did you read my earlier post where I quoted the rationale for it? It's a common sense Bill that essentially tells the municipalities to not make everyone's life harder by making us guess which of a hodgepodge of rules we have to follow in each municipality. Again, not that hard to understand, and not a radical idea. Local jurisdictions have a lot to say in the matter, as they are all represented in our Legislature and can voice their constituents feelings about each of these situations.
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