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What you posted was his response the question, "weren't most of the cases thrown out?" If you read carefully he didn't answer that question. Of course they were prosecuted, but that is meaningless. Were they found guilty? He didn't answer that.
Not sure if you know how AMA's work but the moderator Victoria is usually the one choosing the questions to deliver to the guest, usually over the phone. It doesn't mean that a certain question was ignored, it means that she likely felt it was touched upon earlier so it was never reiterated to him. Just because a question was asked, doesn't mean it was ASKED. The gatekeeper pretty much determines what questions actually get through to the guest otherwise it would just be a wacky free-for-all.
I already posted links to information about the Petaluma sting where 28 of 29 men were convicted. From what I've been able to find, the other investigations largely followed suit since it was a slam dunk to prove solicitation of a minor since these guys essentially gave up plenty of information on camera that basically incriminated them further.
I saw absolutely nothing in there to support your contention that most of the charges didn't stick, nothing supports or corroborates that other than Hansen's comments about internal police and DA problems with one particular investigation.
1) That's just it...it is so widespread, that is was eye-opening to see how much so. I have to ask you, how do perverts "look" and what are "pervert jobs"? (Lol) As were shown, there were so many types, one could be any male, anyplace, anywhere, at any time. ((shudder))
2) Addressing your second paragraph, what you describe is a different situation, still involving predators, but is regarding younger children, with parents having to be vigilant of odd behavior of those around their kids who they may know.
In the TCAP series, the focus is regarding a segment of society preying on teens through the Internet. A way that had cropped up - who knows how long before this - for adult men to locate vulnerable teens online and pretend to also be their age, in order to meet through online chatting. (It is so weird to me, to see the wide range of men capable of having a compulsion such as this).
So, it seems it was wise to have developed this, since who knows how many teens had been in this kind of situation prior to there having been a sting operation, which I believe had begun through undercover specialists before there being those wanting to share this process with the public.
I don't know what pervert jobs are , but I know many people think they're NOT doctors or lawyers or clergy or teachers or other upstanding citizens of the community. Hopefully this show changed some perceptions.
The internet is only one method these people use to meet teens. The show uses it because it's the easiest and fastest way to put the bait on the hook. Parents also need to be vigilant when they see their teen spending too much time or time alone with older people they've come into contact with at Krav Maga or Eagle Scouts or church or the city park. I certainly hope no one develops tunnel vision and thinks they only have to worry about pervert forums.
I saw absolutely nothing in there to support your contention that most of the charges didn't stick, nothing supports or corroborates that other than Hansen's comments about internal police and DA problems with one particular investigation.
Yet again you didn't read what I posted. I gave summary of what was posted on that subreddit. I didn't state it as fact. You asked where I got the info from, I gave answer. Seems that you make it way too complicated.
The internet is only one method these people use to meet teens. The show uses it because it's the easiest and fastest way to put the bait on the hook. Parents also need to be vigilant when they see their teen spending too much time or time alone with older people they've come into contact with at Krav Maga or Eagle Scouts or church or the city park. I certainly hope no one develops tunnel vision and thinks they only have to worry about pervert forums.
True, anything related is a problem all the way around, but as mentioned, what is being discussed is this program existing and the process involved, with apparently some not understanding or appreciating the process.
Read that story. It's fascinating and informative. Hopefully, it's only Florida that's doing stings like this.
As I understand, the TCAP stings were all done with a very high standard.. However, what happens if noone shows up? Do they start lowering those standards? After all, the show must go on..
airing the shows prior to someone being convicted, I also have a problem with.. What happens if someone is on the show and they are found not guilty? Or that the police manipulated the chat where the person never was going to meet someone underage? Airing an 'oops' doesn't exactly make it so that it never happened. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.
As I understand, the TCAP stings were all done with a very high standard.. However, what happens if noone shows up? Do they start lowering those standards? After all, the show must go on..
airing the shows prior to someone being convicted, I also have a problem with.. What happens if someone is on the show and they are found not guilty? Or that the police manipulated the chat where the person never was going to meet someone underage? Airing an 'oops' doesn't exactly make it so that it never happened. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.
What do you mean, "if no one shows up?" Since there are men making contact with someone (a decoy, pretending to communicate as a teen would) on a site created for that purpose, the men are pretty certain to show up, having made arrangements to do so. Once they do, they are already involved at that point. When a man arrives inside the house that is equipped with surveillance and begins speaking to the "teen decoy", who then leaves the room "for a minute", they are already at fault for having followed through with plans to have sex with a minor.
When Chris Hansen initially approaches the "visitor", he begins discussing why they came to the house, detailing their reasons for doing so, at more or less length, with some asking if they can leave or just try to do so, in which Chris tells them, "You're free to go" (or something), only for them to be apprehended by police as they go outside. These men are already in trouble, being tracked from the time they send lewd chats, to their arrival to follow through with their intent with the teen. THAT is the crime.
I hope this cleared this up for you. It seems that a few are not understanding the process or have not seen the program.
What do you mean, "if no one shows up?" Since there are men making contact with someone (a decoy, pretending to communicate as a teen would) on a site created for that purpose, the men are pretty certain to show up, having made arrangements to do so.........
Well, that is something that I've been curious about.
It all rather hinges on them showing up at this or that house. If they don't go to the house, where they have all the cameras hidden, where they have the external surveillance, the show is rather off, isn't it? Granted, there was one where someone netted at a house was later netted outside a restaurant, but for the most part, it's at a house.
So what happens in the conversation on line if the mark says to meet at neutral ground? Does the decoy say, "Too bad, so long!" or do they reinforce that they have to meet there?
Now, we might say, "Well, Tamara, most people don't think like you, aren't superparanoid, always suspecting a trap once the door closes." but doesn't TV show us that for meetings, we should ask for neutral ground? "I told you to come alone.", Adama to Cain when they fought, Sporty James in "Hunter" receiving the payoff in the airport arrival area (pre 9/11 but the crooks couldn't arrive with weapons), etc.. Show us, teach us that we should not go to places where an unknown has home field advantage?
If so, that when the mark called for a neutral meeting place and the decoy pushed for the house, then what difference does it make? Then it is that one side is not as holy as we might believe and the other side didn't create the whole situation of their undoing.
What do you mean, "if no one shows up?" Since there are men making contact with someone (a decoy, pretending to communicate as a teen would) on a site created for that purpose, the men are pretty certain to show up, having made arrangements to do so. Once they do, they are already involved at that point. When a man arrives inside the house that is equipped with surveillance and begins speaking to the "teen decoy", who then leaves the room "for a minute", they are already at fault for having followed through with plans to have sex with a minor.
When Chris Hansen initially approaches the "visitor", he begins discussing why they came to the house, detailing their reasons for doing so, at more or less length, with some asking if they can leave or just try to do so, in which Chris tells them, "You're free to go" (or something), only for them to be apprehended by police as they go outside. These men are already in trouble, being tracked from the time they send lewd chats, to their arrival to follow through with their intent with the teen. THAT is the crime.
I hope this cleared this up for you. It seems that a few are not understanding the process or have not seen the program.
The reason that links are posted is that you're supposed to read them before you reply.
If you must have your information baby birded to you..
Quote:
Most of the cases examined by 10 Investigates involved men who weren't necessarily looking for underage teens, but either posted – or responded to – ads seeking adults. Sometimes, the officers would act as an interested adult with a teenage "sister" who was also interested.
Even though many of the men had no interest in the underage decoys, if they traveled to meet the adult, they were arrested as a "sexual predator" and charged with "traveling to meet a minor."
So, they are not necessarily making contact with a teen, or even attempting to make contact with a teen.. They're making contact with someone who says they're an adult, who then steers the conversation to include a teen. In some cases, it's the police who initiate the conversation.. That in and of itself gets too close to the line of entrapment for my likes.. And also shows that the police, at least in Florida, can't get enough responses, so they have to lower their standards.
Quote:
In the case of a 27-year-old Cape Coral man, arrested during the Lee County Sheriff's Office (LCSO) sting this past May, deputies arrested him even though he didn't even travel to meet a child for sex. Law enforcement officers responded to the man's legal "casual encounters" Craigslist ad, pretending to be a 14-year-old girl, even though the ad said, "age for all women must be 18+ no one under email me plz."
The man repeatedly told the undercover detectives that he was "not OK" with meeting up with an underage girl, but because he didn't immediately end the conversation, he was arrested for utilizing his phone to solicit a sexual act from a child. Detectives went to his house and arrested him as a sexual predator of children.
Prosecutors decided there was insufficient evidence to prosecute on either of the accused charges, yet the accusations and man's name remain on LCSO's online press releases and other media outlets' news stories.
This person couldn't have been clearer that he had no intention of having sex with a teen, and didn't even travel.. But was arrested anyway? Where is the intent there?
How about this?
Quote:
Law enforcement officers also frequently broke their own rules and introduced sex to otherwise innocent conversations.
Among the victims of detectives ignoring ICAC guidelines was a 21-year-old in Pinellas County who responded to a DateHookup.com ad posted of an 18-year-old woman. The officer who posted the ad during Operation Home Alone II started exchanging messages with the man when he asked her to a movie.
The officer wrote, "are you Ok with me being under 18?" The 21-year-old continued the conversation.
Following more exchanged messages and text messages, the detective later added that "she" was about to turn 16, the age of consent in Florida.
As the two continued to swap texts, the man said "I don't want to have sex, is that OK?" But the detective, who repeatedly rejected the man's interest in a possible relationship, kept pushing sex and threatened to call off their meeting. When the man finally indicated he would have sex, police had enough to charge him with numerous felonies.
That is the textbook definition of entrapment.
Or this..
Quote:
A 19-year-old man in Orange Co. was accused of soliciting the guardian of a 13-year-old decoy to arrange sex with her. But the evidence proved differently, as the man was merely responding to an innocuous ad from a 26-year-old woman, which was posted by law enforcement. The detective later tried to convince the man to have sex with the woman's "younger sister," even though he showed little interest.
Why are the police who are doing this basically doing a bait and switch? Because of several reasons most likely.. First, if they post an ad saying that they're underage.. The good people of the internet (There are a few) will generally report it and wherever the ad is posted will be taken down immediately. So, the cops are left trolling unmoderated chat rooms until they are kicked out, or.. Lowering their standards to justify their existence.
And.. A site created for that purpose? Some are done on craigslist or backpage, but..
Quote:
But the law enforcement plan also included sites like Facebook and Twitter, as well as legal dating and social media sites MeetMe.com, Fling.com, Omegle.com, Hi5.com, Tagged.com, and SpeedDate.com
So, you're saying that all those sites were created with the purpose of people having sex with underage people?
again, hopefully TCAP is held to a higher standard than this.. But.. Again the question becomes.. What happens if noone shows up? If they cast their net and nothing is in it? Do they accept that and claim that they've cleaned up the internet.. Or do they cast a wider net?
Most of the things that police dept did are pretty egregious, Labonte18. Glad they got caught.
If no one shows up? Moot point, it seems. TCAP has never had that happen AFAIK. When it happens I guess it will be worthy of discussion.
BTW, does anyone know why those people in TX who found out about the show filming there stood in the street warning the predators headed to the house? I have a feeling I never heard the whole story. Many Texans are rednecks, but I find it hard to believe they're okay with strangers showing up to have sex with their kids.
BTW, does anyone know why those people in TX who found out about the show filming there stood in the street warning the predators headed to the house? I have a feeling I never heard the whole story. Many Texans are rednecks, but I find it hard to believe they're okay with strangers showing up to have sex with their kids.
If I had to guess.. The people were probably more ticked off with the police doing it in their neighborhood..
It's the old NIMBY thing.. "Hey, get these predators off the streets.. What the hell are you doing bringing them next door to me!?"
I tend to agree with you.. That's basically shooting yourself in the foot. I don't believe that you can be 'tough on crime' and protest a prison being built near your house. Or do what these people did. To me, it's hypocritical. Not that being hypocritical ever stopped anyone.
Just to add, about noone showing up.. These shows are a business.. And now, if it basically becomes a small business vs NBC News subsidizing it..If they spend $50k to do this sting and get nothing.. NBC News can take that and say "Oh, well.".. What is now a small business can't do that.. so, the pressure on them to push the boundaries would be higher.
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, but I know many people think they're NOT doctors or lawyers or clergy or teachers or other upstanding citizens of the community. Hopefully this show changed some perceptions.
