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Yes, yes, and they lived in close-knit communities and had help readily available when needed. Besides, your knowledge of Native Americans isn't that great if you believe that they all lived in well-kept houses. Many poorer tribes or family groups had only bark and moss to keep out the winter winds. I'm guessing all of those people would have welcomed a shed or a tarp!
The bottom line, in any case, is how the children are faring. They look perfectly healthy and happy to me, so if they aren't in physical danger and are being looked after spiritually and emotionally, what business is it of anyone's how or where they are raised? The family is in the middle of expanding their living quarters, and it isn't winter now, so they have a good six months to put up cozy sleeping quarters. I could build a log cabin in that amount of time - even at this age and stage, so I'm sure they'll manage just fine - God Willing.
Mahrie.
And this is where you derail yourself as completely irrational. Because 1) he never said they all lived in "well-kept" houses, but clearly meant to show different types of Native American shelters and 2) you seem to be arguing that because you are convinced poor Native Americans from a few hundred years ago had only "bark and moss" to keep out the winter winds the people in this particular case are raising their kids just fine. WHAT?
You're also saying that based on photos the kids look perfectly happy and healthy to you. Ya know what? I had a best friend you could have said that about, and she was dying of cystic fibrosis her entire life. I'm not in any way implying that these children have cystic fibrosis of course, but what I'm saying is that ANYONE can take a pictures that look "happy and healthy" and you have no idea what the reality of these children's situation actually is.
As for building a log cabin in six months, well they've apparently had YEARS to do so and they haven't bothered. And the truth of the matter is that I know plenty of people who know their way around a tool kit who could do it in a day or two - cripes, the Amish raise barns in a day. And a barn would be waaaaaaay better than what that family is living in now.
Exactly. I thought this as truly off grid, not some make shift compound akin to what Jaycee Dugard was forced to endure as part of her punishment
Yes this is a very extreme case. The older brother turned them in, he says they are not clean. Their floor entails just free wood pallets. Poor kid was raised this way. She needs birth control
Yes and the amish live quite decently. This is just inhumane.
The young man who testified is not Nicole Naugler's son. He was removed from his father's custody at age four and was raised by an uncle in another state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector
As for building a log cabin in six months, well they've apparently had YEARS to do so and they haven't bothered. And the truth of the matter is that I know plenty of people who know their way around a tool kit who could do it in a day or two - cripes, the Amish raise barns in a day. And a barn would be waaaaaaay better than what that family is living in now.
The family has lived in rental homes for most of the children's lives. It hasn't been until very recently that the family embarked on this venture. I agree that their living quarters are reason for concern, but CPS stepping in and seizing the children indicates that there is something more to the story than just the state of their housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
Making your kids live in a tent without plumbing or a septic/sewer is extremely unhealthy. Get a composting toilet if you're so into Mother Earth.
Fetching your water from a pond is not healthy. Most ponds are full of bacteria and unpleasant things. And by taking a crap in your yard, you just might be contaminating that pond with who knows what!
The land on which the family lives has been improved. They own both a composting toilet and a cistern.
Make no mistake; I think there may very well be good reason for the state to have removed the children, but it's clear that some of you haven't taken any time to read the facts of the case. There is a lot of hyperbole in the comments, much of it based in outrage rather than truth.
Last edited by randomparent; 05-15-2015 at 06:30 AM..
The father was arrested for going on someone else's property to get water from their well. When confronted by the land owner, he threatened her and told his son to get a pistol. He said, "we know where you live."
These particular parents are not good examples of people living off the grid. These are not the people to hold up as an example.
They never filed paperwork with the school district, which you have to do if you homeschool. Unschooling is fine, if you actually educate your child. Are they even teaching these children?
Their children don't even have birth certificates. (Not sure if they all don't have one.)
How are they going to get jobs as they grow up?
They don't have a well, which every home that does not have access to clean water should have.
There is a history of abuse with the older son too.
I am not against the lifestyle at all, but it has to be done right. Find another family that is doing it right, and show how it can be done.
I live in an area with a high number of Amish and Mennonites. THEY live a a simple lifestyle.
Many live off the grid and off the land. Their children are educated via home schooling at home or a local Amish or Mennonite school. They all have houses with plumbing and heat. They make their own clothes and grow most if not all of their own food. They also have large families. No one takes their kids away. Why? They are providing for them!
Making your kids live in a tent without plumbing or a septic/sewer is extremely unhealthy.Get a composting toilet if you're so into Mother Earth.
Fetching your water from a pond is not healthy. Most ponds are full of bacteria and unpleasant things. And by taking a crap in your yard, you just might be contaminating that pond with who knows what!
They're not educating their children. Those children deserve an education.
Yeah there's more to the story than the article that was posted in the OP's opening thread. Sounds like a lot more!
I've been to Kentucky and in some areas there are numerous shacks/shanties people are living in. You don't hear the state taking those kids away. Why? They parents are providing for them! They have heat, WALLS, a roof, etc. And those children are being educated. The parents aren't abusing their children either. They're just poor.
Not all churches stop at 6th grade. The Amish take care of their own. They have businesses and farms.
Google the population of Alaska and Kentucky. Then Google their land mass and water mass. Alaska has cleaner water because no one lives there!
Yeah how are you off the grid if you have Facebook and post regularly? Just wondering.
There are photos from the news channel that show something like a tent...Vertical sticks with huge gaps in them for "walls" and a tarp for a roof. That's a tent not a cabin. I've stayed in many cabins in the mountains in NC and NY and they ALL had an actual roof made from roofing materials and walls. Even log cabins don't have 2 gaps between logs.
And both parents have been arrested now. Way to set an example for your children!
CPS is not going to release all of the details of the case. There are minors involved. They are still investigating. And quite frankly, it's none of our business.
I find it incredibly sad that this family lives in the wealthiest nation in the world, yet they don't even have the basics such as running water and toilets by choice. I have friends who live off the grid and they have running water, toilets, heat, walls, and a roof.
I'm about done here as despite links - many of you refuse to use them to educate yourself before posting making your posts foolish. We now have a society that does not accept things that aren't the norm for most of us - and yet - there are many areas in this country where people live just as our great grandparents lived. As long as those kids are happy and healthy - they may parent the way they want. I see an awful lot of sad kids, whose parents are rich - but have no time for them - attend the best schools but have no friends or social experiences and grow up to preach at others about things they know nothing about.
Threatening your neighbors is not something one should accept. Abusing your son is not something one should accept.
I read the links. I have come to the same conclusion as Meyerland. What links are YOU reading where you think this family is worthy of raising a single child, much less 11? For me, it has little to do with their lifestyle (though I think moving off the grid is likely a way for daddy dearest to exert control) and everything to do with the parents' actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
The father was arrested for going on someone else's property to get water from their well. When confronted by the land owner, he threatened her and told his son to get a pistol. He said, "we know where you live."
These particular parents are not good examples of people living off the grid. These are not the people to hold up as an example.
They never filed paperwork with the school district, which you have to do if you homeschool. Unschooling is fine, if you actually educate your child. Are they even teaching these children?
Their children don't even have birth certificates. (Not sure if they all don't have one.)
How are they going to get jobs as they grow up?
They don't have a well, which every home that does not have access to clean water should have.
There is a history of abuse with the older son too.
I am not against the lifestyle at all, but it has to be done right. Find another family that is doing it right, and show how it can be done.
I'm curious as to how your off grid friends have running water? Obviously they are not connected to city water and it takes power to operate a pump/well. I guess they could use a cistern type unit but it still needs pressure to move the water. I'm not doubting you, just wonder how it's possible?
People who live "off-grid" generate their own electricity using either solar panels or wind turbines which powers the well pump.
People who live "off-grid" generate their own electricity using either solar panels or wind turbines which powers the well pump.
That's definitely a possibility. I assumed the price of such was not within the budget for most, heck, it's not in the budget for most living in the suburbs.
The father was arrested for going on someone else's property to get water from their well. When confronted by the land owner, he threatened her and told his son to get a pistol. He said, "we know where you live."
These particular parents are not good examples of people living off the grid. These are not the people to hold up as an example.
They never filed paperwork with the school district, which you have to do if you homeschool. Unschooling is fine, if you actually educate your child. Are they even teaching these children?
Their children don't even have birth certificates. (Not sure if they all don't have one.)
How are they going to get jobs as they grow up?
They don't have a well, which every home that does not have access to clean water should have.
There is a history of abuse with the older son too.
I am not against the lifestyle at all, but it has to be done right. Find another family that is doing it right, and show how it can be done.
Probably the most reasoned and well-put post on this thread.
Like I said earlier, without knowing all the details, I'm not saying whether taking the children was justified or not, but it seems many posters here are using assumptions to make that decision mostly just from their lifestyle.
Why are so many assuming the children are not educated? The parents say they homeschool the kids so unless there is evidence otherwise, why is that a common assumption in this thread?
The family uses a composting toilet but so many here assume they just crap randomly in the yard?
An angry neighbor made an accusation against the father. We don't know if it's true or not, but many are assuming it's fact and claiming it's reason alone to remove the children. If that is all it takes to remove the children from the family, half of America would lose their kids to CPS.
It just seems that without knowing so many facts, that doesn't matter to most here, the lifestyle they lead is enough to convict them? I hope some of you never have a pissed off neighbor or family member.
Like I said earlier, without knowing all the details, I'm not saying whether taking the children was justified or not, but it seems many posters here are using assumptions to make that decision mostly just from their lifestyle.
Why are so many assuming the children are not educated? The parents say they homeschool the kids so unless there is evidence otherwise, why is that a common assumption in this thread?
The family uses a composting toilet but so many here assume they just crap randomly in the yard?
An angry neighbor made an accusation against the father. We don't know if it's true or not, but many are assuming it's fact and claiming it's reason alone to remove the children. If that is all it takes to remove the children from the family, half of America would lose their kids to CPS.
It just seems that without knowing so many facts, that doesn't matter to most here, the lifestyle they lead is enough to convict them? I hope some of you never have a pissed off neighbor or family member.
The father's oldest son was removed from the home and raised by an uncle. Losing custody of one child due to abuse shows a pattern. It's much less far fetched to assume that he is continuing an established pattern than that everyone is lying and out to get this family.
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