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You don't even read the posts. NONE of the girls took showers after gym when I was in high school or middle school (graduated 1980). Like another poster pointed out, gym was a 42 minute class like very other. They sent you back with a couple minutes to get your clothes on and get to class. Again, kids who did extramural sports DID shower because they had the time to do it. It is just the height of absurdity to try to make political connections to the reasons kids don't like to shower during the school day.
As usual, you classically infer that your personal experience dictates majority experience of life around the country.
It is obvious by having read some other female posters that they did in fact have this requirement for PE, not just "extramural sports". Some seem to have been put off, if for no other reason for the time it would take to do ones hair/appearance.
Yet the ones that did have the requirement, somehow managed to survive, whether it be within 7 minutes of even 15.
For me as a guy, I recall roughly having 10 minutes from the time we were called in to have time to go to our PE lockers, strip, shower, dry off, get dressed, and head to class.
Again, as to the political connections, those who are known liberals on this forum seem to be the primary, if not the sole complainants against conforming to such practices. Then again, isn't that in the very nature, if not DNA of liberals(i.e. rebel against tradition/conformity)?
With the girls (maybe some of whom went to all girls schools), the primary objection aside from the aforementioned, seems to be modesty, embarrassment, self image, etc.
Far from it for me to understand or judge those "feelings", but clearly people will smell after they sweat/exercise, man or woman.
Saying today that they just threw on perfume and everything was ok, is just an excuse for their own insecurities, which caused them to skip a hygienic function.
No other reason. Naked swiming on a hot summer night in a lake with a bunch of teenage boys and girls and a case of beer is called skinny dipping. A bunch of adolescent boys with their junk in various stages is development under fluorescent school pool lighting is meat gazing by perverts.
Actually I asked that question to presumably a guy, within the context of an all boys/men's school or club. Since only a tiny fraction of boys/men are homos (3% or so), I doubt it would be for "meat gazing" as you put it.
Now as a hetero male, I wish I knew about places where girls voluntarily took off their bathing suits in a co-ed environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
Clothing is filthy. If you want to wash your underwear, use a washing machine.
Well I imagine you can distinguish between swim trunks and underwear.
The guys on the swim team presumably wore trunks, as did some of the guys who did PE related swimming.
I can honestly say that I have never gone into a situation were I knew I might swim publically, and just came with underwear.
So why would a men's club prohibit swim trunks vs. mandating swimming naked?
Could be anything as Id have to hear the reasoning from the people in charge of the pool first. However unlike most people in this day and age my brain doesnt go for the worst possible perverted reason it can think of right off the bat
Ok...so I posed the swimming nude at the YMCA many many years ago to an older man who recalled those tines and who worked there as a teen. This is what I got: "The Y served a different purpose then. Many of its users were not the rich people if you know what I mean. Many boys and men of the time didnt have bathing suits and their shorts were cutoffs...the kind that fray and come apart because they were old....and could cause a real problem with the filter. Plus, the wool suits of the time harbored bacteria if not cleaned properly. Also if they werent yet married, who knows when they were last properly washed. How to solve? Tell em to shower before and not wear anything in the pool. Today folks think that's crazy but men were different then. When I was a teen, all of the adult men had returned from WW2 and didn't think about privacy among men and most boys were 2 or 3 boys to a bedroom at home and 1 bathroom in the house. It was nothing for 1 to be in the shower, one on the toilet, and 1 at the sink before school. There was modesty around the fairer sex, but privacy around other males was a foreign concept."
I used quotes but it was my best recollection. By today's standards it seems very odd but given the cultural context of the time and the fact that the Y used to have a mission to serve nearly everyone including poor young lads (who may not have been the cleanest when it comes to clothing). It does make sense. If you look at the American Public Health guidelines...until 1962, they recommended men swim nude because of bacterial concerns with swimwear. My theory is that is how it started and then just tradition took it into the 60s and 70s when coed everything began and ended it. Lastly, America has grown to associate nudity with sex. In the past children werent viewed as even a possibility of being sexual and therfore nudity among children was not viewed negatively. Among men, it was not socially acceptable to be concerned with your looks and so modesty was not masculine. Among women, modesty was a virtue...thus the rules allowed them to wear suits, but few women swam indoors as female athleticism was not admirable among many.
One final thing that made me laugh though...the old guy said that "men in those days weren't obsessed with the way they look like youngsters today. Maybe that's why they think it's weird. For a date, we got a haircut, showered, and combed our hair. That was it."
Last edited by midgeorgiaman; 06-30-2015 at 06:34 AM..
I think PE classes are a waste of time anyway. No one takes them seriously except the teachers...and that's not even always the case. The fact that one gets a grade on how well he/she performs a sport is ridiculous. I don't have a problem with a health class that teaches kids healthy eating/exercise and lifestyle tips. But requiring physical activity in the middle of the day...and then have to return to class...so pointless!
Kids who want to participate in sports should do so AFTER school, whether on a varsity team or just a pickup game. That's how it works in many other countries...and consequently many other countries have lower childhood obesity levels. That way they can sweat all they need and go home and shower.
I never took gym class seriously, rarely sweated, and NEVER showered in gym. The floors were too gross.
Here is what gym class should teach kids.
Discipline. The ability to do more than you did before. To reach for your potential, to become better at something physically. Also discipline when you are told to drop and give the coach 20 or to run another lap around the track because you mouthed off or were late getting in line for class.
Respect. Respect for your self, respect for others, respect for those that are in authority. Going back to the shower thing, part of that respect comes from everyone being in the same position at the same time.
Understanding that there are winners and losers. Kids are not taught today that some people win and some people lose. They are not taught today that if you want to win you need to put more effort into it. Or maybe you never win at all but end up getting better at something anyway.
I took gym class very seriously. I was a scrawny little kid growing up and always wanted to be better at something. I was not the fastest kid in school and I was sure not the tallest or biggest kid. I am only 5' 6" now. I remember falling in love with cross country running though. Turns out I had something that a lot of kids lacked, endurance. In cross country you don't have to be the fastest, you have to be able to run fast for a very long time. That motivation did get me in trouble one time. Our coach told us to run to the train track and then back. I must not have listened and just followed this other guy who happened to be the fastest one in the class. We ran and must have passes that train track. I just kept following him. At one point he stops and tells me that we must have missed the train track. We were the last two back to the gym. The only lucky thing was that lunch was going on and we were not late for our next class.
Ok...so I posed the swimming nude at the YMCA many many years ago to an older man who recalled those tines and who worked there as a teen. This is what I got: "The Y served a different purpose then. Many of its users were not the rich people if you know what I mean. Many boys and men of the time didnt have bathing suits and their shorts were cutoffs...the kind that fray and come apart because they were old....and could cause a real problem with the filter. Plus, the wool suits of the time harbored bacteria if not cleaned properly. Also if they werent yet married, who knows when they were last properly washed. How to solve? Tell em to shower before and not wear anything in the pool. Today folks think that's crazy but men were different then. When I was a teen, all of the adult men had returned from WW2 and didn't think about privacy among men and most boys were 2 or 3 boys to a bedroom at home and 1 bathroom in the house. It was nothing for 1 to be in the shower, one on the toilet, and 1 at the sink before school. There was modesty around the fairer sex, but privacy around other males was a foreign concept."
I used quotes but it was my best recollection. By today's standards it seems very odd but given the cultural context of the time and the fact that the Y used to have a mission to serve nearly everyone including poor young lads (who may not have been the cleanest when it comes to clothing). It does make sense. If you look at the American Public Health guidelines...until 1962, they recommended men swim nude because of bacterial concerns with swimwear. My theory is that is how it started and then just tradition took it into the 60s and 70s when coed everything began and ended it. Lastly, America has grown to associate nudity with sex. In the past children werent viewed as even a possibility of being sexual and therfore nudity among children was not viewed negatively. Among men, it was not socially acceptable to be concerned with your looks and so modesty was not masculine. Among women, modesty was a virtue...thus the rules allowed them to wear suits, but few women swam indoors as female athleticism was not admirable among many.
One final thing that made me laugh though...the old guy said that "men in those days weren't obsessed with the way they look like youngsters today. Maybe that's why they think it's weird. For a date, we got a haircut, showered, and combed our hair. That was it."
Good points! I remember back in the '60s-'70s it wasn't unusual to see little kids playing in their yards in the sprinklers or wading pool completely buck naked or little girls at the beach topless.
Some fine points are raised by all of the last three posts;
I dealt with the "mandatory open shower" question from 1961 through 1967; most of the real bullying came early in junior high, and things slowly improved afterward. But it wasn't until freshman year in college that I got an opportunity to directly overcome a physical challenge (basic swimming) and picked up a life sport in the process. (We wore suits for that, BTW, but they covered a lot less than they do now, and I missed the au naturel experience by only a few months.)
Most of the root causes of all the controversy vented here revolve around the feminization/androgyny of sport and exercise -- no criticism or resentment intended, just fact. The breakdown of traditional family structure and the growth of single-parent female-headed households is another elephant in the room. When an over-sheltered, passive male from such a home is confronted by a hoodlum-wannabee from the same environment, bad things are bound to happen.
The Phys Ed instructor during the worst of my experience was somewhat of a bureaucrat, but his successor, a well-adjusted athlete and coach was a lot better, and I found ways to bond with the experience and overcome some of my reluctance. And once the dumb-bullying element had been completely removed in a college environment, the problem was solved.
There really is such a thing as "locker room camaraderie", and it still exists among sports teams and likely in more than a few fraternity houses. And as has been previously noted, there is another group, resentful and pursuing power in support of an agenda, emerging from that breeding ground over in Deep Left Field, The battle lines are drawn, and some people are going to get hurt in the process.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-30-2015 at 03:27 PM..
I think PE classes are a waste of time anyway. No one takes them seriously except the teachers...and that's not even always the case. The fact that one gets a grade on how well he/she performs a sport is ridiculous. I don't have a problem with a health class that teaches kids healthy eating/exercise and lifestyle tips. But requiring physical activity in the middle of the day...and then have to return to class...so pointless!
Kids who want to participate in sports should do so AFTER school, whether on a varsity team or just a pickup game. That's how it works in many other countries...and consequently many other countries have lower childhood obesity levels. That way they can sweat all they need and go home and shower.
I never took gym class seriously, rarely sweated, and NEVER showered in gym. The floors were too gross.
You are a kid, right? They did away with PE in your day so you never got the point of it. We used the same lockers and showers visiting teams did at our schools and they were first rate. When I was in school in TX we had field houses rather than lockers and showers in the main building. The showers were a big communal thing - nothing weird or homo about it - and there was even a guy handing towels out; usually one of the scrawny kids who merely hung out instead of participating. Most of the PE classes I took in the two states I lived in had full blown games of baseball, touch football, basketball, wrestling or lots of running. We would run cross country; about a mile after every class and then go in and shower.
When I was in ES we played hard as well. Baseball, football, rope climbing, kickball, dodgeball, running, you name it. We didn't have showers then, we got that in junior high.
As big a fuss as FLOTUS makes about eating healthy and exercise...why hasn't she gone after school administrators about PE? I might like her a little bit if she did so.
We had communal showers in school that were an improvement over what I had at home. We lived in the country and did not have plumbed in hot water until I was six or so. My step father thought bathing once a week was sufficient.
I remember being in 'Nam in the Riverine Navy and, if I did not get a shower on land before I got back to my ship, trying to get clean in a two minute shower was a bad joke.
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