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Sarah Bland decides to kill herself and it is everybody's fault but hers.
Let's arrest the whole state of Texas because they didn't give her a private escort when she crossed over the line.
When those who have put themselves into a fiduciary position over her fail to follow the bounds of the tacit contract and written, legal guidelines, then yes, it is their fault that they allowed for circumstances to exist which allowed her the access to materials and the privacy to successfully do so.
Yes, however, he illegally extended the stop when he failed to advise her that she was free to go once he had handed her back the warning and her license. He also never ordered her to put out her cigarette (he requested), and did not order her out of the car (he requested) until she refused to get out when he asked her, then he yanked open her door and started to pull her out. He did not follow protocol, he deliberately antagonized her, in other words, he handled the situation badly, outside of his departments guidelines, and he also lied about and omitted some of his actions both to his supervisor and on his report. I have previously posted links to these bolster these statements.
In other words, both were wrong, he was more so.
The police do not have to advise you that you are free to go. Tho it is wise to frequently ask.
Here is a tip, this is what you say to the police "Am I free to go? Am I being detained?"
He didnt order her? Really?
TROOPER: "Well, you can step out now."
BLAND: "I don't have to step on out."
TROOPER: "Step out of the car." Order 1
(He opens the driver's side door.)
BLAND: "No, you don't have the right."
TROOPER: "Step out of the car!" Order 2
BLAND: "You don't have the right to do that."
TROOPER: "I do have the right. Now step out or I'll remove you." Order 3
BLAND: "I am getting removed for failure to signal?"
TROOPER: "Step out or I'll remove you. I'm giving you a lawful order. Get out of the car now or I'm going to remove you." Order 4. Strike 4 your out!
When those who have put themselves into a fiduciary position over her fail to follow the bounds of the tacit contract and written, legal guidelines, then yes, it is their fault that they allowed for circumstances to exist which allowed her the access to materials and the privacy to successfully do so.
Of course, because Sandra Bland has been the only inmate to successfully manage to commit suicide while in police custody in American history.
The more and more (and sadly) more I see of this incident I've reached a few conclusions.
1. They were both wrong in how they acted/reacted.
2. The officer should get some retraining in public interaction and how to avoid escalating an incident.
3. Nobody but Bland is/was responsible for her death.
Sad as it may be it was her choice done at her own hands.
The cop's own superiors have said he handled the situation unprofessionally. The point isn't whether he could order her out of her car, it's whether he should have.
They said he should have been more courteous, which he absolutely should have been. She was combative from the start, which would have probably been okay if she was dealing with a more experienced trooper. If someone is an activist and wants to record bad cop interactions like you see on the internet all the time, then do it with another person in your car, not just you and an unknown police officer on the side of the road. This guy does an extremely dangerous job. The traffic cop goes into the unknown every single day. Many of them get killed. We've all seen the dash cam videos of police getting shot at routine traffic stops. An inexperienced trooper may not know the proper way to handle things, and this guy obviously believed she wasn't respecting his authority.
My thing is, know how to read a situation. I knew this woman was going to jail the moment she started shouting that he was a p*ssy cop. In what world do you expect to just get your ticket and walk away after hurling insults like that at a cop? He asked her to get out of the car and she made a fuss about it. Does she have a right to make a fuss about it? It's already been established that the officer had a right to ask her to step out of her vehicle. She can complain about it, but at that point it could land you in jail. Maybe she was willing to go to jail to prove a point, but she didn't expect to sit there for three days and her friend to stand her up on posting bail. Sometimes that's all it takes to push a depressed person to suicide.
The cop was wrong, but so was she. This wasn't the situation to prove a point. He is more responsible, but all this furor over her dying in jail really has nothing to do with him. She was mad about the arrest, but she was sad about what she felt was abandonment. If her friend had bailed her out I am confident Ms. Bland would have enjoyed dealing with the cop in court. Being pissed when the law is on your side is an empowering feeling. Feeling like you don't have a friend in the world is not.
The cop is not responsible for her death. I've heard people say he should go to prison for life over this. People in this area went to protest in front of the apartment complex where he lives, originally planned for the very diverse neighborhood where his house is. Imagine what could have happened if something sparked anger and then a riot or burning ensued, in a neighborhood with lots of innocent people. That was by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
It doesn't matter what HE did, SHE decided to kill herself. It was her CHOICE. Everybody on this earth has been treated unfairly at one time and probably many times. We do not kill ourselves!!! She chose to, just like she chose to speed, not buy insurance, not pay her fines and say F U to the laws put in place to protect the rest of the people who drive on these roads.
Did she care about other people when she was speeding? No
Did she care about other people when she did not provide a way to pay their hospital bills in case of an accident? No
Everybody else pays their fines, she felt she didn't have to. Why?
Did she even care about herself? No, she killed herself instead.
Did she tell the jail she was depressed? No
She is the one who is responsible for her own death, nobody else.
In the real world, people react to you by how you treat them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
Getting snippy is not an arrestable offense.
The arrestable offense was not signaling while changing lanes. The cop has the OPTION of writing you a promise to appear (ticket) or even a warning.
It is left to the officer's discretion if he'll cuff you and take you to the station.
Here's a clue, be overly polite and follow instructions if you'd prefer to be allowed to continue on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochamajesty
That makes her posts extremely disgusting, if true. I wonder how her black family members feel.
Hopefully the black members of her family aren't the ones who say the slow elevator is racism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
The cop's own superiors have said he handled the situation unprofessionally. The point isn't whether he could order her out of her car, it's whether he should have.
Should Bland have put out her cigarette when he ordered her to do so? Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
Not quite because when you said this it infers that you know what does constitutes a lawful traffic stop.
Not signalling a lane change is a Class C Misdemeanor in Texas. It WAS a lawful traffic stop.
Speeding is also a lawful traffic stop. So is running a red light.
Maybe some people need to talk to a lawyer to get that, but most of us don't.
The police do not have to advise you that you are free to go. Tho it is wise to frequently ask.
Here is a tip, this is what you say to the police "Am I free to go? Am I being detained?"
He didnt order her? Really?
TROOPER: "Well, you can step out now."
BLAND: "I don't have to step on out."
TROOPER: "Step out of the car." Order 1
(He opens the driver's side door.)
BLAND: "No, you don't have the right."
TROOPER: "Step out of the car!" Order 2
BLAND: "You don't have the right to do that."
TROOPER: "I do have the right. Now step out or I'll remove you." Order 3
BLAND: "I am getting removed for failure to signal?"
TROOPER: "Step out or I'll remove you. I'm giving you a lawful order. Get out of the car now or I'm going to remove you." Order 4. Strike 4 your out!
He orders her out another 3 times after this.
It would appear the SCOTUS may disagree with you. Once the citation is issued, the person is free to go.
Quote:
“A police stop exceeding the time needed to handle the matter for which the stop was made violates the Constitution’s shield against unreasonable seizures,” Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote for the majority. The vote was 6 to 3.
The case, Rodriguez v. United States No. 13-9972, started when a Nebraska police officer saw a Mercury Mountaineer driven by Dennys Rodriguez veer onto the shoulder of a state highway just after midnight. The officer, Morgan Struble, performed a routine traffic stop, questioning Mr. Rodriguez and his passenger and running a records check. He then issued Mr. Rodriguez a written warning.
The officer had already completed the stop, asking her if she was irritated and then to put out her cigarette was done after he'd checked her records and found all was in order, and had handed her the warning. He prolonged the stop past its resolution. That is a violation of one's constitutional rights.
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