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Old 07-25-2015, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,302,319 times
Reputation: 4546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
What the public needs to do is start getting gun bans put on ballots. That way people can vote for them regardless of if they are Constitutional or not. If gun bans get enough votes, Congress will know that the public wants to ban guns and they can start working on repealing the 2nd Amendment.
What a great way to circumvent Constitution.

We should also try & see if the public will support taking citizenship away from subversive elements. Terrorist supporters and such. The hell with Constitution, let's go with majority sentiment. It can't be manipulated, right ?
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:47 PM
 
914 posts, read 973,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
You're wrong there. A knife wound is extremely dangerous, it results in large blood loss in short amount of time. Just picture the size of a blade vs the size of a bullet. A lot of people die from knife wounds. I think the mortality rate is about on par with mortality rate from gun shots.

And I don't walk around armed all the time. I do live in Detroit - but not in the city. I live in a middle class area with very low crime rate. There were less than a handful of murders in my township in the past decade and all were domestic. But I want to be prepared in case I have to go to a bad neighborhood or some drugged up kids from the ghetto decide to go for a night hunt in the suburbs. I've seen what happened in Baltimore, LA and New Orleans. And London and Paris, for that matter. And I travel a lot all over the country.

I'll let you in on a secret - a decent neighborhood in the US (which describes the vast majority of US) is safer than Europe. No violent crime and also no hooligans, pickpockets, or people who just left a pub and are spoiling for a fight. Americans are for the most part polite to each other.

Let's make a deal - you take our ghettos and you can have our guns
Lol no thanks, and I agree on the manners thing with you. Most Americans are far more polite in relation to the UK , however I do not agree with the alcohol laws especially when its religion that affects them, plus for the reason I said above. Most of Europe drink at a young age and there are no issues as people don't see it as a taboo. You see many people in Spain , UK and other parts of Europe as well as Australia/NZ where I have lived drinking wine outside by a marina and enjoying a leisurely lunch with children in tow ,who when they grow up don't think its this big dirty secret or feel the need to get steaming drunk

The UK however I will admit does have some but not all who wish to fight after knocking out of a pub, but again they would be this way whether alcohol was involved or not so I guess that's our cultural issue as yours is with guns. I live in Utah, lots of guns but I do feel very safe actually, still I would not have a weapon in the house even with kids and yet I am restricted on my freedom to take a child into a lot of places where alcohol is served. I have never neglected my child after having a glass of wine, I never get drunk so I would not know where my kids and my kids will have no more urge to drink when older than they would if alcohol were not in their life , but religious beliefs prevent it and affect legislation, this is something we do not have either . Here more people are more likely to be addicted to prescription drugs than alcohol and we are one of the highest states for self medication yet asI have said gun crime is low by and large. As are fights after alcohol even though the laws are starting to be relaxed especially downtown in the city.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,302,319 times
Reputation: 4546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montygirl View Post
Lol no thanks, and I agree on the manners thing with you. Most Americans are far more polite in relation to the UK , however I do not agree with the alcohol laws especially when its religion that affects them, plus for the reason I said above. Most of Europe drink at a young age and there are no issues as people don't see it as a taboo. You see many people in Spain , UK and other parts of Europe as well as Australia/NZ where I have lived drinking wine outside by a marina and enjoying a leisurely lunch with children in tow ,who when they grow up don't think its this big dirty secret or feel the need to get steaming drunk

The UK however I will admit does have some but not all who wish to fight after knocking out of a pub, but again they would be this way whether alcohol was involved or not so I guess that's our cultural issue as yours is with guns. I live in Utah, lots of guns but I do feel very safe actually, still I would not have a weapon in the house even with kids and yet I am restricted on my freedom to take a child into a lot of places where alcohol is served. I have never neglected my child after having a glass of wine, I never get drunk so I would not know where my kids and my kids will have no more urge to drink when older than they would if alcohol were not in their life , but religious beliefs prevent it and affect legislation, this is something we do not have either . Here more people are more likely to be addicted to prescription drugs than alcohol and we are one of the highest states for self medication yet asI have said gun crime is low by and large.
I wholeheartedly agree with you there 18 years and beer go great together But that's another example of laws that aren't well enforced or adhered to.

OTOH on one cruise that we went on many years ago, the beer drinking contest was nearly won by a 13 yo German boy... now that's extreme.

BTW I had no idea that in Utah you can't take kids with you to the establishments that serve alcohol... must be an LDS driven thing.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:54 PM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,014,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
I wholeheartedly agree with you there 18 years and beer go great together But that's another example of laws that aren't well enforced or adhered to.

OTOH on one cruise that we went on many years ago, the beer drinking contest was nearly won by a 13 yo German boy... now that's extreme.
In a perfect world, I think the drinking age would be based on a person by person basis. I have known some 12 year olds who would be responsible enough to drink. On the other hand, I have known some 45 year olds who shouldn't be drinking.

Unfortunately it isn't feasible to base the age on individuals.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:00 PM
 
914 posts, read 973,548 times
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I agree there, but I don't see how you can own a gun but not be able to drink as the same goes for that and marriage for that matter. Also is this not an infringement of my rights by restricting my freedom to drink when I don't hold a religious belief that others do and it restricts my personal freedom via legislation drawn up by people who have a fixed agenda. This doesn't happen in the UK. There is an age law but no religious one, our legislation is to the benefit of all and inclusive not exclusive. Religious beliefs do not come into in in most cases other than to respect others of all races.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:01 PM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,014,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montygirl View Post
I agree there, but I don't see how you can own a gun but not be able to drink as the same goes for that and marriage for that matter. Also is this not an infringement of my rights by restricting my freedom to drink when I don't hold a religious belief that others do and it restricts my personal freedom via legislation drawn up by people who have a fixed agenda. This doesn't happen in the UK. There is an age law but no religious one, our legislation is to the benefit of all and inclusive not exclusive. Religious beliefs do not come into in in most cases other than to respect others of all races.
Last I checked, drinking was mentioned in the Constitution. Firearms on the other hands are.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:04 PM
 
914 posts, read 973,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
Last I checked, drinking was mentioned in the Constitution. Firearms on the other hands are.

was or wasn't? I'm confused. Get guns are, so alcohol isn't? or have I got that wrong? Or religious freedom?
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:06 PM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,014,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montygirl View Post
was or wasn't? I'm confused. Get guns are, so alcohol isn't? or have I got that wrong? Or religious freedom?
Wasn't sorry. Religion would have nothing to do with drinking.

My point is that firearms are protected under the Constitution. Alcohol isn't.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:13 PM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,952,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
What the public needs to do is start getting gun bans put on ballots. That way people can vote for them regardless of if they are Constitutional or not. If gun bans get enough votes, Congress will know that the public wants to ban guns and they can start working on repealing the 2nd Amendment.
What the public needs to do is become aware of people who think like you do and do something about that.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:17 PM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,171,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
What a great way to circumvent Constitution.

We should also try & see if the public will support taking citizenship away from subversive elements. Terrorist supporters and such. The hell with Constitution, let's go with majority sentiment. It can't be manipulated, right ?
It doesn't circumvent the Constitution. The Constitution contains instructions on how it can be modified -- and it would be following those instructions.
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