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Let's call a spade a spade. If a civilian let their Pit bull loose under the guise of "playing" or "working" that owner would be fined, the dog put down, and the ban the breed crowd would go insane.
I agree with the OP, another case of the Blue line.
That is so true. I love German Shepherds and I love Pit Bulls. Had a Pittie done this?...well I would have read about it someplace else first and there would be public outrage.
This was a Malinois and they're very high energy and very driven. And I believe most PDs get their dogs from Germany, where they are trained. It really takes a dedicated handler to keep a dog like this.
Having said that, police departments have been using dogs for decades and will continue to do so. It's horrible what happened, but the good these dogs do doesn't make this a reasonable excuse to dump the whole program across the US.
I have heard people say that American dogs (Shepherds, Dobermans, and Rottweilers) are too sissified today. Many people condemn them because they aren't sharp and aggressive, like the European dogs. My only comment to that was to tell a story about my own Doberman. He was protection trained and worked in Schutzhund and I had ample proof that he would protect me.
One year I was flying back home and taking the dog with me (cheaper than boarding him for two weeks). We walked into a crowded terminal and I put my dog in a sit-stay while I put together his crate in the middle of this crowd. While I was occupied doing that, a little girl came over and hugged my dog. A sharp, aggressive dog would have reacted by biting. MY dog just gave her a face washing with his tongue while wagging his tail. THAT is why we have the more laid back temperament in US dogs. It's because we are such a litigious society and also because our dogs are exposed to a lot more people when they're not working. Yes, the dogs have lost some edge, but they make up for that by being a dog that stops and thinks about his situation, instead of merely reacting.
I'm not entirely sure we need to import our working dogs from Germany. I honestly think we have dogs here in the US that are good enough to do the job a police dog needs to do and still be mellow enough to be a family dog and companion when he's off the job. I really hope to see police departments utilize American bred dogs for future use.
Nothing to add that being a "police dog" doesn't always equate to being well trained.
My good friends dad has had a beautiful piece of retirement property in the North Carolina mountains. I believe it is like 20 acres and he has owned it for over 15 years and recently was able to retire on it full time.
Anyways long story short a few years ago a neighbor moved in and keeps 3 "police dogs" right on the property line. They are downright obnoxious. Anytime you pull up to the property, open the front door, go outside, make any movement or noise the dogs go on a ballistic barking spree. All of his complaints fall on dead ears because of the good old boy system and the fact that his neighbor is a deputy as well as his 3 "officer" k9 friends. It's truly ruined his retirement property. Not to say that non police dogs wouldn't do the same thing but still....
Just my irrelevant anecdotal $.02
The difference is that non-police dogs wouldn't be allowed to get away with it.
So this is a drug dog, not a dog trained in bite work (perhaps, but that is not the primary training/function). A drug dog finds drugs and alerts, that's what they do - they don't attack! We had Belgian Mals that were with EOD in Afghanistan, and they were great at sniffing and alerting on bombs hidden in everything from containers to septic system trucks, but they didn't train bite work either, so...
I am confused as to why the dog would attack. Dogs trained in bite work "corner and hold" unless commanded to attack. The dog's handler was in the area, and the dog did not respond to commands, and had to be pulled off. This is not a dog that can be trusted in K9 work.
I think the dog needs to be put down, the handler needs serious retraining (and probably reassignment to something other than K9 handler), and the city needs to pay for all the girls medical needs, rehab requirements, and additional compensation as some sort of punitive damages IMO.
I've really been thinking about this, and the only conclusion I can come to is that this was a police department and a handler new to K-9 work that had no understanding of dogs, and in particular, no understanding of a complex breed like a Malinois. They may have followed instructions in training classes and regarding policies, but they likely had no understanding of what it means to work with a dog, its instincts or what it is capable of.
The use of police attack dogs is immoral and crime that We the People should never have tolerated.
All such attack dogs should be put down, whether they've randomly attacked someone or not.
It sickens me that the police have transformed "man's best friend" into a tool of oppression and fear in their never ending campaign to terrorize the populace. Their counterparts in the Gestapo and Stasi would be proud.
This was a Malinois and they're very high energy and very driven. And I believe most PDs get their dogs from Germany, where they are trained. It really takes a dedicated handler to keep a dog like this.
Having said that, police departments have been using dogs for decades and will continue to do so. It's horrible what happened, but the good these dogs do doesn't make this a reasonable excuse to dump the whole program across the US.
I have heard people say that American dogs (Shepherds, Dobermans, and Rottweilers) are too sissified today. Many people condemn them because they aren't sharp and aggressive, like the European dogs. My only comment to that was to tell a story about my own Doberman. He was protection trained and worked in Schutzhund and I had ample proof that he would protect me.
One year I was flying back home and taking the dog with me (cheaper than boarding him for two weeks). We walked into a crowded terminal and I put my dog in a sit-stay while I put together his crate in the middle of this crowd. While I was occupied doing that, a little girl came over and hugged my dog. A sharp, aggressive dog would have reacted by biting. MY dog just gave her a face washing with his tongue while wagging his tail. THAT is why we have the more laid back temperament in US dogs. It's because we are such a litigious society and also because our dogs are exposed to a lot more people when they're not working. Yes, the dogs have lost some edge, but they make up for that by being a dog that stops and thinks about his situation, instead of merely reacting.
I'm not entirely sure we need to import our working dogs from Germany. I honestly think we have dogs here in the US that are good enough to do the job a police dog needs to do and still be mellow enough to be a family dog and companion when he's off the job. I really hope to see police departments utilize American bred dogs for future use.
Well said! A lot of the reason dogs are brought in from overseas is the massive amount of inbreeding that goes on in the U.S.. This really screws up the offspring creating all sorts of genetic disorders/personality disorders. In Europe (Germany) GSD breeding is tightly controlled so close relatives do not enter the gene pool of any one single offspring.
Where I got my GSD the breeder had imported/traded offspring (and continually does so to keep the lines fresh) from accomplished German Schutzhund lines so we got no inbreed puppies. We had to contractually agree to spay our bitc# and would not receive her AKC papers until we did so as to protect the blood line.
I believe either this particular Belgian was a bad pick from a bad source or the training/handling was defective. Either way it should be returned to the trainer.
Sadly, I think this dog must be put down. After such an attack, there would be too much legal liability for the police department to keep the animal as a working drug dog, and the dog clearly isn't safe for placement into the average civilian home.
(Maybe the military has use for such an animal in a war zone? that's the only placement I could see that would be appropriate.)
Let's call a spade a spade. If a civilian let their Pit bull loose under the guise of "playing" or "working" that owner would be fined, the dog put down, and the ban the breed crowd would go insane.
I agree with the OP, another case of the Blue line.
I agree here..... I still say the police officer/handler knows his dog and knows what it is capable of. This kind of dog should never be considered a pet. It's a working dog, the trainer needs more training, possibly he is not a good K-9 Cop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster
K-9s aren't supposed to attack without a command or someone physically attacking their handler. They are also trained to bite an attacker on the arm, NOT the face or neck or anywhere else. I didn't see anything in the story about the handler ordering the dog over the fence. He let the dog out in the yard, the girl walked up to the fence and tried to pet the dog over the top of the fence. The dog jumped the fence and attacked. Another neighbor said the dog had charged the fence at them when they were in their back yard.
Five or six years ago I watched a police dog demonstration at the local fair. The handler was demonstrating the dog's drug-sniffing abilities on a car in front of a semicircle of watchers about 20 feet away. A kid who looked about 2 got away from her parent and toddled over to pet the dog and all the dog did was look at the handler as if to ask what he should do next. THAT is what this K-9 should have done. The dog cannot be trusted.
I do understand this, yet something went wrong. If the dog was trained to react at certain actions, then the dog did his job. You and I were not there to make a judgment call on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001
Perhaps the handler should be put down?
Possibly, the captain should question if the handler really knows the dog. Does the handler really pay attention to the dog while off duty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000
It's never the dog's (or its breed's) fault. Never. It's always on the owner or handler. Because we know every dog behaves perfectly every time.
Mick
Since they are decedents of the wolf, kind of makes people more stupid, for not understanding the little side of wild each dog may have. Most of us who own dogs understand this, one would think a K-9 police officer would have complete understanding. This dog is worth a lot of money, he should never have been able to jump the handlers fence. I have a female shepherd, she is wonderful around me until I pick up a stick or ball and then it is all about the object. She doesn't even distinguish my hand from the object. With this she is not allowed to play with others or children. I can't trust her to not nip the person if they try to take the object away. I have tried to fix this issue, but she is very driven on keeping the object once she has it, "drop it" is not her favorite command.......right there she would not be a good police dog. Wonder if some dogs are being put in with out every box checked for Good Behavior.
That is so true. I love German Shepherds and I love Pit Bulls. Had a Pittie done this?...well I would have read about it someplace else first and there would be public outrage.
The difference I think, pits are being associated with drug dealers and gang members. Most people are so ill-informed and don't know what wonderful dog a pit bull make. German Shepherds are generally used for military and police work, so the attack is usually on a scale of working and not fighting.
Something happened to make this dog react. Without all the information those calling for the dog to be put down are very disturbing. Although, the dog should never have bitten, what was this dog trained to do? Dogs do not know the difference in a young drug dealer, compared to an older drug dealer, now do they? The handler is to blame for no control of the working dog.
Put it down... NO more cop dogs.. reminds me of the gestapo
American police are the new Gestapo. Where do you think they get their ideas from? It's no coincidence that they choose the same dogs the Gestapo used.
Last edited by KaaBoom; 08-04-2015 at 08:56 AM..
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