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ocnjgirl, you keep getting so hung up on the fact that you believe the teacher was correct in her answer to this question. That is not the issue here. Some people are debating it, yes, but it's useless because it's totally irrelevant. What was the correct answer does not matter; it's not the problem. The problem is the example the teacher used. We don't care, and neither does the district apparently, that technically her answer was probably correct. We don't care. We care that she used God as an example and forced her students to choose an answer asking about the validity of the belief in God, AND that she declared that there IS a correct answer regarding a belief in God. THAT is the issue. Asking about the belief in God or any religion is supposed to be forbidden in public schools because they are supposed to be 100% secular. Even if she would up saying "actually this question has no right answer and you are all free to believe what you want about God," that would STILL not be okay because she STILL brought up the belief in God in the first place. You cannot touch this subject in a public school. If you do, you will probably be disciplined for it and you are unequivocally wrong, even if your answer was right.
I don't know how many times it has to be said.
I said in many threads it wasn't the best example to use, and clearly she shouldn't have used it. But I also maintain its not a big deal and people are getting their panties in a wad for nothing. Many posters seem to feel she insulted them or denigrated their religion, they assume she herself doesn't believe, and I dispute all of that. We have no idea of her personal beliefs but many insist we do.
I also don't see that she asked about the student's beliefs or whether they believe in God, but you again are saying that. She asked if they know the difference between a fact, opinion and common assertion.
So, does that mean that praying before a big test might not help? Pray anyways, lol. Study too.
I'm not exactly Miss Religious. I'm really quite the evidence-based type. But, this is a strange world. You can't discount that there isn't something spiritual going on.
In 15 minutes this story won't matter.
I myself, like the whole separation of church and state stuff that the U.S. established way back in the beginning. Lots of people vacated Europe to be free to live their life according to their beliefs. That's how it should be, unless such beliefs infringe upon other people.
Maybe the class could have had an open minded discussion?
Better yet, precious class time should be focused on something with real world value. Would you want to discuss the God questions all day long, or learn something that really helps the world progress? It's evident to me that science and technology is our miracle maker. However we find the answers to solve life problems, I have no idea. Maybe it comes from a god, or something? Its really not easy to be religious once you have been around the world. Go to the Far East. The belief system is radically different. Maybe all of these believers experience some kind of epic placebo effect? I have no idea. It is very interesting. LOL, I'm just free writing whatever here with no direction to any point, lol.
I said in many threads it wasn't the best example to use, and clearly she shouldn't have used it. But I also maintain its not a big deal and people are getting their panties in a wad for nothing. Many posters seem to feel she insulted them or denigrated their religion, they assume she herself doesn't believe, and I dispute all of that. We have no idea of her personal beliefs but many insist we do.
I also don't see that she asked about the student's beliefs or whether they believe in God, but you again are saying that. She asked if they know the difference between a fact, opinion and common assertion.
LOL … You still don't *get*it* and you don't get that it IS a "big deal" precisely because what the teacher did was FAR over the First Amendment line …
ponder: Why did the very wise Founders go out of their way to to make that one the FIRST Amendment … ???
(Maybe because, then and now, it IS a "big deal" … ???) ...
The definition of common assertion nor any other word doesn't change from the "hood" to the suburbs, wth are you talking about? If you are trying to tell me btw that the black community is not religious as a rule, I think you are mistaken and I don't care if you live there or not.
It's only a "common assertion" that there is such a thing as "the black community."
Christmas is never a "God thing" in schools, btw, because it CAN'T be - just like this question CANNOT be asked regardless of the irrelevant right answer. Schools have to remain neutral when it comes to religions. That doesn't mean we can't call what is actually Christmas break "Christmas break" though rather than "holiday break" or winter break" but that is another issue...
I said in many threads it wasn't the best example to use, and clearly she shouldn't have used it.
It certainly wasn't. And this is where the discussion should end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
But I also maintain its not a big deal and people are getting their panties in a wad for nothing. Many posters seem to feel she insulted them or denigrated their religion, they assume she herself doesn't believe, and I dispute all of that. We have no idea of her personal beliefs but many insist we do.
I don't think, personally, that she insulted or denigrated any religion, and I don't care whether or not SHE believes. Her personal beliefs, like the correct answer, are irrelevant. The single issue is the example she used. There is no need to bring God into it. That is a sensitive, very personal and controversial topic, we all know this, and schools are not supposed to even pose a question or prompt on such a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
I also don't see that she asked about the student's beliefs or whether they believe in God, but you again are saying that. She asked if they know the difference between a fact, opinion and common assertion.
To write a question or prompt that says (this is taken from here) ""There is no God": A. Fact, B. Opinion, or C. Common Assertion", is essentially asking a kid about their OWN beliefs in God or a particular religion. It doesn't have to explicitly ask "do you believe in God?" to touch on that belief. This isn't a question like "fact, opinion, or common assertion: "the sun is x miles away from Earth"" or "President Obama is a far left liberal Democrat" or something, this is a question regarding a personal belief system. And that does not belong in a classroom. Anything that asks, even innocently, about a religion or faith or individual's personal belief is not supposed to be discussed. There are common assertion questions she could have used that did not involve a personal belief system. The involvement of a personal belief system is the single issue here. She even could have used Christianity in an objective way, like stating a fact about Christianity, like "Christians celebrate December 25 as Jesus' birthday" (fact), but asking to label the prompt "There is no God" is just not okay.
She even could have used Christianity in an objective way, like stating a fact about Christianity, like "Christians celebrate December 25 as Jesus' birthday" (fact), but asking to label the prompt "There is no God" is just not okay.
I keep making the point that "facts" are usually slippery things.
A whole wing of Christianity does not celebrate December 25 as Jesus' birthday--Eastern Orthodox (millions of Christians whose tradition hails from old Constantinople rather than Rome) observe Jesus' birthday on what we would call January 7 because they use the Julian calendar rather than the Gregorian calendar.
On the Julian calendar, "December 25" falls on January 7 of the Gregorian calendar. So depending on one's basis for calculating dates, two people may not agree for a fact what day it is.
I keep making the point that "facts" are usually slippery things.
A whole wing of Christianity does not celebrate December 25 as Jesus' birthday--Eastern Orthodox (millions of Christians whose tradition hails from old Constantinople rather than Rome) observe Jesus' birthday on what we would call January 7 because they use the Julian calendar rather than the Gregorian calendar.
On the Julian calendar, "December 25" falls on January 7 of the Gregorian calendar. So depending on one's basis for calculating dates, one cannot even say for a fact what day it is.
Okay, so then it could have been even more specific than what I put, but my point still stands about using an objective statement. Or maybe then in that case the answer would instead be "common assertion," but there is a difference between saying "Most Christians believe or celebrate (this)," a very specific prompt about a specific group and using a word like "most", and saying "There is no God," which is broad and does not touch on any religion at all, just an individual belief that varies, don't you think? That was my point.
I mean, I would avoid religion all together in an assignment like this... but I think there are some examples regarding religion that would be acceptable, as teaching about major religions is also acceptable.
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