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You do not have to be a "control freak" to see the ills of doing dope. Sure there can be a pragmatic argument regarding decriminalizing or even legalizing pot, just as there are logical and compelling arguments with keeping it illegal.
However I wish to comment on the part I bolded. Many times people take an ambivalent attitude toward things they believe do not effect them. They do not even envision how it might down the road because they feel safe/disconnected from it.
Since you do not smoke it (neither do I), you figure that any of the unhealthy aspects of it (physiological/mental) will not directly have an impact on you.
Yet some of it's ills might very well effect your life either on the periphery, or even directly. Being hit in a car accident or harmed by someone high is the obvious example.
But let me give you an example not involving drugs, that you might also not see the harm in, even though it may directly effect you.
It is a government program called affirmative action. It is based on quota set asides for minorities and women, typically in education/employment. You may not be for it, but don't give a rats a$$ about it because your profession does not practice it. So you do not have to worry about working with less intelligent coworkers or ones who cannot physically pull their weight. You also do not have to worry about being passed over for promotion by someone inferior to you, all because of the discriminatory policies it uses.
YET, you might have a kid smart kid someday who rocks their GPA and ACT/SAT, who wants to get into a certain college in the future.
However if they get passed over due to less qualified people under this program, it will effect you. I happen to know of a liberal minded person who supported AA, that this very thing happened to. It opened their eyes, but obviously far too late for their own kid.
There are other ways it can directly impact you life, such as needing EMS or LE assistance. When you call 911, you are hoping for help from people who are the best and brightest in what they do. However, you might find the person/s responding totally incompetent, or not up to the job to save a family members life.
Their poor choices, inadequate education level, poor temperament or lack of physical abilities could contribute to an unwanted outcome. I could give you a dozen examples off the top of my head, but I only want to use the ills of AA as an example, not derail the thread.
Hopefully you get the picture.
If not, feel free to PM me or engage me in a thread about affirmative action.
So like me, you are not a doper, but rest assured there are all sorts of ills associated with dope of any kind. The few things that might be in it's favor for decriminalizing or legalizing do not make the ills of it magically disappear.
`
wow. just wow. for the record I too think aa is bs. Has nothing to do with this subject though.
The story of Charlotte's Web - A new strain specifically designed for medical purposes. THC is virtually altogether removed. Named after the little girl who used to have seizures about every 30 minutes, and now suffers less than 1 per week.
I didn't read those links, because believe it or not, I can support the use of tightly controlled medical marijuana even though I am not a dope smoker.
I also know others who vote against it, but would support it if tight controls were used. For example, if the law/s were written to only allow usage for chemo patients, those with seizures, glaucoma, and a couple of other serious medical maladies, I'd vote yes.
The trouble is that places where it was promoted as being limited, the laws language was too loose, and now have dopers getting scripts for insomnia and other such absurd things.
When the issue was on the ballot in FL, I put some serious thought into it. My research indicated there were to many loopholes and discretionary elements in the language.
It certainly didn't help that the hippie dopers were on the side of the road holding up signs to vote yes for it. They obviously knew that once pot got reclassified, that is their foot in the door to try and get it legalized for their own selfish use. They are the classic example of ruining something for people who may really need/benefit from it, so that they can eventually get legally doped up themselves.
So if you want to make a medical case for it, that is one thing. However understand that unless the law can be written in a way to limit it to all but the most medically needy, the dopers and their ilk will try to abuse it.
BTW - I am not sold on the ADHD issue for several reasons having nothing to do with pot. I firmly believe that many kids/people are misdiagnosed, and just medicated to make the problem go away. Based on my own life and others I know, many of us might very well have been diagnosed with it, had that been common back when we were growing up.
If not for being athletic and playing sports, there is little doubt I would not have been able to burn off all the energy I had. So my studies and behavior would have put me on the pill pushers radar today.
As a conservative, I'm actually for legalization of drugs, but let me start off by saying that I'm not a virgin to the drug industry:
I did drugs in my 20's (used, abused, and sold them) and survived. I went to jail, hated the cops, got shot at etc..I also hurt my back in my 30's and was over prescribed opiates that I promptly became addicted to.
Here's why I feel that they need to be legalized:
1) Juvenile Gangs. The number one cash source of the juvenile gangs in this country is selling weed, followed closely by cocaine and heroine. With weed you pretty much know what you're getting, but with the other two, you could be getting as little as 8% drug and 92% cut. These gangs will cut your coke with anything from milk powders to household detergents, so by regulating what goes into the drug, it will help cut down on unnecessary overdoses and deaths.
Also, juvenile gangs fight over the rights to sell their drugs at territory boundaries (take a look at what's happening in Chicago right now). I feel that if we took these drugs out of their hands, there would be a lot less killing over turf in the long run.
Also, our prison system is overrun with juvenile gang members, most of the time for petty offences such as selling dope. We are most certainly in need of our entire justice system and we need to re-look at a lot of the old laws on the books that deal with drug possession and intent to sell etc. One reason kids join gangs is because they have nothing else to turn to, and once they start racking up their charges (street cred) they really have no way of ever breaking the cycle legally.
2) Drug Cartels - in 2013 the Los Zetas drug cartel took in more cash that most South Amercian countries did in that same year. The Los Zetas are just one of several large trafficking Cartels along the Mexican/US border. They are like the juvenile gangs here, but in serial killer mode. It is not uncommon to find videos on the internet of men (and teens) cutting each other's heads off, torturing each other, killing women by hacking them up with axes etc.
That violence has often spilled over across the border and we will continue to see mass murders here, S. American born killers crossing the border to run supply routes here. Juvenile Gangs like MS13 and the Latin Kings are closely associate with the cartels.
One thing that we could do to stem the violence going on south of the border is to legalize drugs here. Take the money out of the hands of the cartels, and once it's not profitable for them anymore, they will go supply other emerging nations desperate for their highs.
3) Curb the prison industry. The prison industry and it's lobbyists are very lucrative to any politician who "talks tough" and fuels the war on drugs. I see prisons as big business. There are prison companies that are right now competing for government contracts to build more prisons in your state. Don't believe me? Ask your congressman/woman. In order to slow down this very powerful lobby group (which certainly lobby for tougher crime laws on drugs etc), we should slow down our incarcerated population. Yes there are many folks who need to be in jail, but there are many more who, quite frankly don't. Having an intent to sell conviction on your record is very damaging to a young man's life. Yes most do it for the money and yes they are making a conscious decision to sell the drugs, but most of the time there's a level of culture that plays into it, and also you can include young & dumb into the mix as well. I did a lot of things in my 20's that, looking back, I wish I hadn't. But, if I had been caught (I took a plea bargain to reduce my sentence) and the book thrown at me, I most certainly wouldn't be as successful today as I am, because I'd still be rotting away in jail.
So, curb the lobbyists, and re-look at the outdated laws in this country.
4) It would make drugs boring. Take a look at what's going on in Holland lately. Pot has become so un-cool there that people have simply gotten sick of it and moved on. I feel that if we legalized drugs here, there would be a celebration of sorts where everyone would want to use, but that overtime, as drugs became more routine and boring, people would move on. What would the rap industry rap about if there were no drugs to sell? What would the party scene be like with a safer regulated drug out there? The people who are going to use drugs are going to do so whether they are legal or not! So let's make it safe for them at least.
5) Regulation and taxation: Regulation would clean up the garbage drugs that are out there, help monitor our abusers who need help, and could help us keep better statistics on drub abuse etc. Taxation would bring in a completely new revenue stream into this country and it would also help bring in a whole new taxpayer base who currently doesn't pay much in the tax arena. This would most certainly be a win-win for us.
I don't know, I'm not a smart person, I hope that others can figure this out. These are just my thoughts coming from a pretty conservative guy on a pretty "liberal" issue that I'm actually in favor for.
Stop putting our young and dumb kids in jail and ruining their lives, tax it and let's turn around the national debt or spend the money on other social programs (SSI comes to mind), and let's stop making billionaire murderers south of the border.
I must laugh tho', you seem to be over exaggerating..
I think the term fits like a glove.
A to whomever posted it besides me.
Far too many people have altered their lives for the worse, all because they liked to get high on pot. If that is not the classic definition of dopey, I don't know what is.
You probably really like my term used in my last post, "hippie dopers". I know it probably makes me sound 60+ years old, when in reality I am much younger than that chronologically and in spirit.
However I was raised old school, and live my life by that philosophy. I am mature enough to have ignored the prodding to be cool and stop acting so old. It also helped keep me from succumbing to peer pressure, hence I have never done a single illegal drug. Unlike Clinton, I never even attempted to inhale.
In reality it is not acting old to be mature, pragmatic, and obey the law.
I am far from perfect, but will be happy to be judgmental of things I know to be wrong or harmful.
Have you ever seen the gamertags on Playstation and Xbox? There's at least 20 million stoner nicknames on those two platforms alone, now I'm pretty sure that OGKush420 isn't laying around all day smokin and playing video games (or is he/she?), but it's my experience that there's plenty of high, stoners just laying around collecting their entitlements.
Sure there are, but was has that to do with those of us who are responsible? Aren't there also people sitting home playing video games drinking beer? If there wasn't pot, are you saying those same people who are addicted to gaming would instead be out being productive citizens?
There will always be people who abuse any drugs, legal or not, but it shouldn't affect everyone who uses responsibly, just as people who drink responsibly don't get penalized or lumped in with drunks.
As a conservative, I'm actually for legalization of drugs, but let me start off by saying that I'm not a virgin to the drug industry:
I did drugs in my 20's (used, abused, and sold them) and survived. I went to jail, hated the cops, got shot at etc..I also hurt my back in my 30's and was over prescribed opiates that I promptly became addicted to.
Stop putting our young and dumb kids in jail and ruining their lives, tax it and let's turn around the national debt or spend the money on other social programs (SSI comes to mind), and let's stop making billionaire murderers south of the border.
Two comments.
First, you hopefully do realize that despite being conservative, you come from a background that would make you more sympathetic to drug legalization. This calls into question your ability to make an impartial educated choice, at least to some degree.
Second, do you apply the same philosophy to other traditional/moral vices that could be legalized for the purposes of taxing them to make a profit?
If the answer is yes, then I question how conservative you may really be, because difficulty holding the line against vice is in large part what helps to keep a society functioning.
Allowing people to do whatever they want, any time they want just because it feels good is hardly a recioe for a healthy, productive society. Human nature can be very debased, and if allowed to do the aforementioned, we would be doing little more than living in a concrete jungle.
Maybe you might be more of a libertarian than a conservative.
Regardless, I just wonder what you would picture American society being like if we taxed and legalized all the vices like drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.
I didn't read those links, because believe it or not, I can support the use of tightly controlled medical marijuana even though I am not a dope smoker.
I also know others who vote against it, but would support it if tight controls were used. For example, if the law/s were written to only allow usage for chemo patients, those with seizures, glaucoma, and a couple of other serious medical maladies, I'd vote yes.
The trouble is that places where it was promoted as being limited, the laws language was too loose, and now have dopers getting scripts for insomnia and other such absurd things.
When the issue was on the ballot in FL, I put some serious thought into it. My research indicated there were to many loopholes and discretionary elements in the language.
It certainly didn't help that the hippie dopers were on the side of the road holding up signs to vote yes for it. They obviously knew that once pot got reclassified, that is their foot in the door to try and get it legalized for their own selfish use. They are the classic example of ruining something for people who may really need/benefit from it, so that they can eventually get legally doped up themselves.
So if you want to make a medical case for it, that is one thing. However understand that unless the law can be written in a way to limit it to all but the most medically needy, the dopers and their ilk will try to abuse it.
BTW - I am not sold on the ADHD issue for several reasons having nothing to do with pot. I firmly believe that many kids/people are misdiagnosed, and just medicated to make the problem go away. Based on my own life and others I know, many of us might very well have been diagnosed with it, had that been common back when we were growing up.
If not for being athletic and playing sports, there is little doubt I would not have been able to burn off all the energy I had. So my studies and behavior would have put me on the pill pushers radar today.
`
I have ADHD, it is a real thing, and mj is the only non-stimulant med to every really help me.
Out of curiosity, you don't want someone with insomnia being prescribed pot, but you're okay with them being prescribed Ambien?
Two comments.
First, you hopefully do realize that despite being conservative, you come from a background that would make you more sympathetic to drug legalization. This calls into question your ability to make an impartial educated choice, at least to some degree.`
So in your mind a person who has never smoked but "knows" all this stuff about it is perfectly able to make an impartial, educated choice, yet someone who actually has real life experience with it cannot?
Can you not see how absurd that line of thinking is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
I have ADHD, it is a real thing, and mj is the only non-stimulant med to every really help me.
Out of curiosity, you don't want someone with insomnia being prescribed pot, but you're okay with them being prescribed Ambien?
I don't think he was denying the existence of ADHD, just pointing out that it seems to be overly diagnosed, which I have to agree with 100%. It is a shame, but it seems to be the "go to" diagnosis for too many doctors today.
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to whomever posted it besides me. 
