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I see many people who are concerned about their industries being against legalization simply because they are afraid of their job security. We might not need so many police, judges, jailers and numerous other services if we eliminated criminal punishment for possession and use of cannabis.
Maybe we would have more room in jails and have more time to go after violent criminals or white collar criminals in Washington DC if we didn't clog up courts and jails with people who use cannabis. It certainly would free up more tax dollars for that.
So in your mind a person who has never smoked but "knows" all this stuff about it is perfectly able to make an impartial, educated choice, yet someone who actually has real life experience with it cannot?
Can you not see how absurd that line of thinking is?
I don't think he was denying the existence of ADHD, just pointing out that it seems to be overly diagnosed, which I have to agree with 100%. It is a shame, but it seems to be the "go to" diagnosis for too many doctors today.
Right, but his point was that mj shouldn't be an option as a drug for ADHD simply because many kids are over diagnosed and he's not "sold on it"...as adults though we should be able to try whatever may help...why is it okay and better for me to have Adderall or Ritalin prescribed than mj? They are much, much more dangerous as well as addictive, but if I stayed within the laws, that's all I could take. Instead I take a few puffs on a day when I need to do something I find overwhelming, like cleaning out a cluttered room, and it enables me to cut through the fog and get it all done without the urge to procrastinate or the confusion/anxiety that is usually present for me when I am confronted with a task that challenges my ADHD self. I actually even enjoy getting it done. When it wears off, I am relaxed and fine, whereas with the prescriptions I would be hopped up all the time and unable to sleep, leading to God knows what sort of health problems but certainly heart problems would be likely.
It won't be approved for kids unless for a life-threatening serious condition like seizure D/O and even that is non-THC, but for this poster Vector, who doesn't have ADHD and doesn't know anything about it, to say regarding myself and other adults like me "I don't think she should have mj as an option", I ask, who the heck are you, and why should you have any say whatsoever in my health care? Why should I need you to be "sold" on my diagnoses and what helps it? Why is it your business in any way whatsoever?
There is another thread about an e-mail sent to college students asking them to be thoughtful in their choice of costume....that thread is now filled with those with conservative views, claiming we have a right to wear whatever Halloween costume we want because this is America...yet many of the same people feel it's fine to tell me what medicine I can take for my health issues? I have a guaranteed right to choose my Halloween costume, but not my health care... that choice has to be approved by Vector and anyone else who has an opinion? Is that about it?
1. I never said I smoked.
2. I never said pot smoking is harmless; it's smoke---it's a toxin---with sometimes positive side effects.
3. Gateway drug---says the dad who bought his kid beer lol. Oh, it was legal so it wasn't a drug? lol!!!!!
4. I never claimed no one would be affected in negative ways by smoking pot. That's ridiculous.
Your entire OP was implying (including your thread title) pot is beneficial/harmless, and everyone doing it (legally & illegally) are just fine. Maybe you were trying to push back against those who have started threads pointing out the negative consequences of it.
As to a gateway drug vs. my booze story, I had some beer at a young age, but it never had me looking to do a single drug, not even once. Yet I've known people who cannot stand the taste of booze, but became heavy druggies after having started with pot.
I also never said booze was not a drug, just pointing out that it was legal for my sons age in Ireland. Now of course if we were in a country pot was legal, I'd have never had him try it, as everyone in my family has been dope free. It is something we take pride in, especially me since I was surrounded by the crap when coming of age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999
wow. just wow. for the record I too think aa is bs. Has nothing to do with this subject though.
I am glad to hear you feel the same way, and it was only used as a comparative analogy for someone who felt pot usage by others would not have any effect on them or their family.
I have ADHD, it is a real thing, and mj is the only non-stimulant med to every really help me.
Out of curiosity, you don't want someone with insomnia being prescribed pot, but you're okay with them being prescribed Ambien?
Two things to clarify.
First I never said ADD and/or ADHD is not real. I merely pointed out that in my view it is overly diagnosed.
Additionally, even if I had what would have been clinical diagnosis of it back in the day, I was able to overcome it without the use of drugs they so frequently puts kids on now days.
Second, I am not familiar with Ambien or the other natural or pharmaceutical remedies used for insomnia. My point was that those of use who empathize with those who have genuinely serious medical health issues that medical marijuana could help, do not want it abused by hippie dopers just wanting to get high. Yet that has happened in several instances where it passed for the real people in need, then turned into a farce with any and everyone being able to get it.
Your entire OP was implying (including your thread title) pot is beneficial/harmless, and everyone doing it (legally & illegally) are just fine. Maybe you were trying to push back against those who have started threads pointing out the negative consequences of it.
As to a gateway drug vs. my booze story, I had some beer at a young age, but it never had me looking to do a single drug, not even once. Yet I've known people who cannot stand the taste of booze, but became heavy druggies after having started with pot.
I also never said booze was not a drug, just pointing out that it was legal for my sons age in Ireland. Now of course if we were in a country pot was legal, I'd have never had him try it, as everyone in my family has been dope free. It is something we take pride in, especially me since I was surrounded by the crap when coming of age.
I am glad to hear you feel the same way, and it was only used as a comparative analogy for someone who felt pot usage by others would not have any effect on them or their family.
So, lets see here...
Alcohol is a drug, you just admitted to letting your son try a drug (that you purchased for him) where it is legal...then saying you would never allow him to have tried cannabis, even if it was legal where you were.
So, you're ok with the drug you're ok with, just not the drug you're not ok with....
Two things to clarify.
First I never said ADD and/or ADHD is not real. I merely pointed out that in my view it is overly diagnosed.
Additionally, even if I had what would have been clinical diagnosis of it back in the day, I was able to overcome it without the use of drugs they so frequently puts kids on now days.
Second, I am not familiar with Ambien or the other natural or pharmaceutical remedies used for insomnia. My point was that those of use who empathize with those who have genuinely serious medical health issues that medical marijuana could help, do not want it abused by hippie dopers just wanting to get high. Yet that has happened in several instances where it passed for the real people in need, then turned into a farce with any and everyone being able to get it.
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But so what if some people abused it? Other drugs are abused, but they are not banned for those who use them responsibly because of a few who use them recreationally..why is mj so different, that NO ONE can use it until no one abuses it ever, but no other drug whether medicinal and recreational has to meet that impossible standard? So what if some hippie used it to get high if it helped 3 people with pain issues? Aren't hippie dopers who just want to get high already getting high?
Why do you (collectively) feel the need to control this so much? What really is it that's behind it?
Ambien is notorius for not fully wearing off the next day, there have been many deaths attributed to it via car accidents (including one of the Kennedy women recently, who hit someone and claimed it was due to Ambien hangover). It also is known for causing sleepwalking. It is also cheap, it is the only insomnia drug many health insurance plans will pay for (versus Lunesta which wears off more quickly but is much more $$). I tried it once but felt groggy the entire next day. Of all these insomnia medications, mj is the safest by far.
Yet because a hippie may get high, you would rather people continue to take Ambien, even if it means more deaths? Why? Why does it bother you if a hippie gets high on pot or if he gets high on a bottle of cheap vodka?
So in your mind a person who has never smoked but "knows" all this stuff about it is perfectly able to make an impartial, educated choice, yet someone who actually has real life experience with it cannot?
Can you not see how absurd that line of thinking is?
I don't think he was denying the existence of ADHD, just pointing out that it seems to be overly diagnosed, which I have to agree with 100%. It is a shame, but it seems to be the "go to" diagnosis for too many doctors today.
Maybe I was a little hurried and inarticulate with my meaning. It was not just that you smoked or did drugs, but you also sold the stuff, and paid a price with jail time. While I am all for 2nd chances (not 3rd to infinity) for certain crimes, those who have paid a price and are now straightened out, might never have gotten that way, had it not been for the law.
So you thinking the system shouldn't penalize people such as yourself could not only be self serving, but you may not be who your are today (presumably drug free and on the correct path) had it not been for the deterrent/incarceration factor.
Regardless, no offense was intended.
You beat me to the point on explaining about my meaning with ADHD. I am glad we agree, as I have talked with many a MD, councilor, teacher and parents about this phenomenon.
It isn't only with prescribing drugs either, but for breast cancer treatments, overuse of surgery (including but not limited to caesarian sections vs. natural childbirth), etc.
While our medical system is one of the best in the world, we have gotten far too willing to accept certain forms of treatment as a routine, rather than being used only when absolutely necessary. I would also add, definitively/properly diagnosed prior to receiving Tx.
Two comments.
First, you hopefully do realize that despite being conservative, you come from a background that would make you more sympathetic to drug legalization. This calls into question your ability to make an impartial educated choice, at least to some degree.
Second, do you apply the same philosophy to other traditional/moral vices that could be legalized for the purposes of taxing them to make a profit?
If the answer is yes, then I question how conservative you may really be, because difficulty holding the line against vice is in large part what helps to keep a society functioning.
Allowing people to do whatever they want, any time they want just because it feels good is hardly a recioe for a healthy, productive society. Human nature can be very debased, and if allowed to do the aforementioned, we would be doing little more than living in a concrete jungle.
Maybe you might be more of a libertarian than a conservative.
Regardless, I just wonder what you would picture American society being like if we taxed and legalized all the vices like drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.
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To respond, I haven't used illegal drugs in over 20 years. Legal drugs such as alcohol, Norco, and tobacco I have certainly used in the past 20 years, my usage of these drugs has no affect whatsoever as to how I feel we should treat juvenile gangs and the prison system as stated in my post.
To question whether I can make a impartial and educated choice, I would ask that you re-read your answer and read my statement once again and make an impartial and educated conclusion as to which one sounds more researched and with thought behind it.
Actually, every one of those vices ARE legal in some shape or form in this country, and I feel that a little bit of state level regulation is not only important in these vices, I believe also that it's up to the voters of each state as to how their state is governed.
I would much rater visit a house of prostitution that has been regulated, has an A+ rating (like restaurants), regular HIV tests, and is out in the open than some escort service that is run by a pimp who beats his women, feeds them drugs, and most certainly doesn't pay any taxes. Not that I personally would ever pay for sex, but Ashley Madison is a 2 Billion dollar a year website devoted to people who cheat on their spouses, so there will always be a need for prostitution.
Gambling is already in almost every state and although in most states it's for "Education" funds (this opens a whole other can of worms!), at least we are already taxing most forms of gambling.
And I consider myself probably 80% conservative, but feel that walking the party lines in all circumstances is idiotic and ignorant.
If true..then several hundred thousand people were worthless human beings today.. Provided little to the betterment of their communities... Engaging in purely hedonistic and selfish activity ....they tuned out reality..operated motor vehicles high..went to work or school high...diminishing their ability to interact with others
They were not targeted by anyone..unless their obnoxious or criminal behavior brought the spotlight upon them.
At least 10-20 percent of these users will be addicted to pot.. More will live with polypharmacy or alcohol... Some will go undetected...
With all we face in our world do we really need to support these losers as the princes and princesses of pot
Face it, the war is over. You lost.
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