Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sports lends itself to teamwork and leadership. You don't think that is vital to being a success in the workforce?
If it's so vital, why aren't ALL students required to participate in competitive sports? They're not; in fact, most are not allowed to participate no matter how badly they wish to, because they aren't good enough to make the team.
Do you believe school is a vital social setting or should be run like a prison, head down at all times and learn!!!!
No, school should not be run like a prison, but socialization is NOT its primary purpose. Education is. Students have plenty of time after school hours and on the weekends for various socialization activities.
OK. Read all 182 posts in one sitting. I'll break up my multi-quotes into several posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keep It Simple
Because we can't hurt anyone's feelings now....
It's sad you think it's funny to hurt a small child's feelings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds
Santa is not part of a religion......
Not sure why they needed to go see Santa and not have Santa come to the school. Santa is not a part of Christianity! Santa is for all people, why would this Jewish woman be offended?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Religions? What has Santa got to do with Christianity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
How so. Santa has nothing to do with religion. Santa has nothing to do with religion.
Non Christians put up trees, visit Santa, exchange gifts. All the Christmas trappings are secular.
Is Coke a Cola a Christian company cus I just saw a coke can with Santa on it, not Jesus, Santa. Lets boycott Coke.
Is there one of you posters who grew up in the christian church who celebrated Santa as part of your religious teachings. Have you ever attended a Christmas church service where the sermon was of the birth of Santa. Were you told Santa was the son of God born of man a savior that would save our souls?
I didnt think so.
Santa is to Christianity as much as a giant rabbit that lays chicken eggs is to Christianity. He is made up to bring joy to children. Perhaps we should boot Santa out and bring in Krampus. We all believe in evil, right. Let scare the crap out of those little boogers, that will teach them something.
If the kids were taking a field trip to mass, or a church, or a nativity, or to sit on Jesus' lap then I get it but its SANTA. And if kids dont want to go they can stay at school, no big deal. Last week my gs opted out of a field trip to a movie theater. He helped out in other classes and caught up of some school work, I dont see the big deal.
And those worried about their tax dollars used for some kids to go see Santa, well your probably the same ones worried about what food people purchase with EBT. The government wastes your tax money every single day on all manner of foolishness and your going to sweat a trip to go see Santa because its not educational. Are you aware of the number of school programs that have nothing to do with education.
This was well addressed in the thread, but I'll say it again in my own way. Santa is a sort of corruption of St. Nicholas, who is certainly a part of Christianity. Santa may not be "religious", but he is certainly a symbol of Christmas, which is a symbol of Christianity. Also, all school programs have to have some tie-in to the curriculum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811
I'm an agnostic, but I was raised Methodist and I still love Christmas and all its accoutrements.
However, I firmly believe that ALL religion should be kept out of public schools except as is necessary to discuss history and current events -- and then there should be no religious "celebrations" of any kind, no matter how "secular" those celebrations have become.
(Btw, I think that the comments on the first page of this thread are spot on, for the most part, and I think that the comment about Talia now possibly making her child a target of bullying is a good point. She definitely could have handled the situation MUCH better. I just hope that the kids will actually show the lessons that Jesus taught.)
I see no problem with teaching about religion in schools, and I mean any religion. I do see a problem with this field trip, especially as there seems to be no balancing field trip or whatever regarding another religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
Exactly. Which is why I refuse to even engage the argument, it's so stupid. LOL. He's a secular symbol of a religious holiday. Period. People who are not very religious may celebrate Christmas anyway for the fun of it, but that doesn't make it a secular holiday. It makes it a religious holiday that secular folks feel comfortable co-opting sometimes.
In any case...
If a school wants to open up that particular can of worms by taking kids to see Santa, then they have to do it right. Make sure you are doing in in the context of exploring multiple holiday traditions, and offer clearly defined ways to opt-out, so that no one can say their children feel forced to celebrate Christmas or that Christmas is being elevated as THE holiday by the school. The woman who complained referenced her kid "spending 5 days on one holiday" which means that wasn't the first Christmas thing they had done. What the parents ended up doing on their own sounded right... hosting something where kids learn about multiple holiday traditions.
I like the idea posted here:
Going downtown and looking at the multiple holiday displays, then (optional) visiting Santa AND a Hanukkah display or something like that makes sense. That's the way you do a Santa trip in a public school setting IMO. Simply cover your arse like a good administrator. LOL
I think that's a wonderful idea!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 12-21-2015 at 05:28 PM..
No wonder kids think adults are unfair. These are 5 & 6 year olds just wanting to see Santa, its not about religion at that age. They want presents, not to be preached at or be PC. I wish my kids school had done this, would have saved me 2 or 3 hours in line. A big ado about nothing imo.
You'd rather the school take over parenting functions! Nice admission!
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne
When my oldest was in kindergarten, I was supposed to bring plates and napkins for their "holiday" party. I brought stuff with a Santa Claus theme - didn't occur to me at all that that was "wrong" - and they didn't use them because it was Santa Claus. The school also always had a Christmas tree in the main entrance and by the time my kids were a little older in grade school, the Christmas tree had been banned because some parents had complained about it.
When I went to grade school, we sang Christmas songs that actually had the words "Lord" and "Jesus" in them and we did a school play every year that included the nativity, angels, etc.
I am tired of everyone being SO offended by everything these days - even GOOD things people take offense at! Be offended by things that matter - like terrorists. Not by kids who believe in Santa Claus.
My brother-in-law just turned 73 years old last week. When he was in elementary school, his school did a Christmas pageant as well. My MIL has shown me pictures of this. 5 years later, when my DH was in the same grade, they didn't do that anymore. Now this was probably 60 years ago in Omaha, Nebraska that they figured out this wasn't cool. Nothing to do with "these days". It's simply inappropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Yes you do.
Here read up on the history of Christmas, a pagan festival celebrating the god Saturn.
And Christmas had nothing to do with the founding of our country.
Jesus' birth on 12/25 didn't enter the picture until 350AD
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all know that. Nothing new to see here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachie123
that's not discrimination. the child wasn't being denied or excluded from going by the school.
You just don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Christmas and "santa" predate Christianity. Santa is just as well associated with the Pagan Yule and the Holly King.
No, Santa is a corruption of St. Nicholas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachie123
i think the problem is that many people who celebrate christmas do NOT celebrate anything related to christianity or any religion at all, myself included. i did not grow up in a religious household at all. no church, no prayers, no bible reading, no learning about god and jesus...etc etc etc. but we did celebrate christmas with santa and a christmas tree and presents and decorations and christmas lights on the house. this is how MANY people celebrate christmas. yes christmas is technically a christian "holiday". but in reality most people do not celebrate it in that way and santa to me is santa. he does not represent any religion to me.
That doesn't really matter. The reality is that Santa is a symbol of Christmas, therefore, of Christianity. Most Jewish kids do not celebrate Christmas, even secularly.
Total waste of time! How old WERE these kids anyway? 50 years ago there were few kids older than 7 who believed in Santa - as sophisticated as they are now, there'd be even fewer. Santa is a custom for parents - NOT for schools to spend time (and therefore money) on. And to 2mares, I'm perfectly okay with EBT...that program is a little more complicated to administer than just saying no to bogus field trips!
My mom was no fan of Santa, for reasons I won't go into here. (Phew, right? ) 60 years ago or so, She used to complain about kids believing well into elementary school, which went to 6th grade in our district.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
This is a Kindergarten class. Santa Claus is no more a Christian symbol than reindeer, chestnuts roasting on an open fire, or Frosty the Snowman.
This wasn't an activity I'd promote for a school, but geez, it's not like the children were taken away from their SAT exams. The Grinch must be over this hubbub.
Actually, going to the zoo to see reindeer, having a chestnut roast or building a snowman might be appropriate activities for a "winter holiday" unit. The chestnut roast might be difficult to pull off due to safety concerns, but maybe they could set up a fire pit and let the teacher and some parent volunteers do the roasting. Building the snowman would depend on the availability of snow, of course. But it would teach a little engineering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Further
Alright.....time to play the devil's advocate card. A very good friend of mine is 1) Mensa Member 2) Published author 3) Highly respected college professor. According to him, the incoming freshman classes just get dumber every year. So, taking that into consideration, will an hour or two seeing Santa REALLY make that much of a difference in those kids education????
I find these college professors annoying. He's getting farther away from his own college freshman days every year, maybe that's his problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keep It Simple
What about HS kids leaving class early for basketball playoffs, maybe we need to cancel all school sports as well....I mean the taxpayers are paying the cost of the buses to get them to the game, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel
Yes, in fact we should! Competitive sports (as opposed to PE) are another activity that can't really be justified as a wise use of taxpayers' money. They can be done on a self-funded extracurricular basis, like Little League and Pop Warner already do.
a) Subjects for a different thread.
b) Nothing to do with religion, although in some small towns HS sports are nearly a religion.
a) Subjects for a different thread.
b) Nothing to do with religion, although in some small towns HS sports are nearly a religion.
Thread drift yes, but it does make the point that 'but we've ALWAYS done things this way!' isn't necessarily a valid reason to continue a practice (particularly given the increasing diversity of our population).
If it's so vital, why aren't ALL students required to participate in competitive sports? They're not; in fact, most are not allowed to participate no matter how badly they wish to, because they aren't good enough to make the team.
They pick the best players....similar to what goes on in the real world....not everyone gets a trophy
I see no problem with teaching about religion in schools, and I mean any religion. I do see a problem with this field trip, especially as there seems to be no balancing field trip or whatever regarding another religion.
The irony, of course, is that many of the cheerleaders for this educationally worthless field trip would bust a blood vessel if older students (junior high and up) were required to take a Comparative World Religions course or The Bible as Literature course (both of which could be easily justified as truly educational).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A big ado about nothing imo.
) 60 years ago or so, She used to complain about kids believing well into elementary school, which went to 6th grade in our district.