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It charged from 80 yards away. At about 25 feet he used Bear Spray with no success. The Bear kept charging. He had a holstered pistol, but it was torn from him in the attack.
After the first attack, about 10 minutes later the same bear was heard coming through the brush again and attacked him once more.
He was very fortunate this thing didn't catch an artery with it's teeth. He managed to hike 3 miles to his truck to drive himself to the hospital. How Ambulance crews were not enroute to meet him is beyond me as he called the hospital to tell him he was coming.
As an avid outdoorsy type of guy, I've been researching bears quite a lot. There is a very real danger when in Grizzly territory. I don't think bear spray is enough protection honestly. He probably should have just used the gun if the bear was in an all out charge. (sorry if this offends the gallery). Bear spray works as a deterrent if they are not in charge mode. Many examples of this.
People need to respect that these animals can do some serious harm to them, and for Grizzley's it's almost always due to protection of cubs or to protect their territory. If they're out of hibernation early, there is a very real threat for them attacking for the sake of food, which is what happened to Tim Treadwell and his wife.
This attack was for the protection of the cubs, so when the threat was neutralized (he played dead), the mother bear moved on. If it had been for food, he would have not been so lucky.
SN.. for Black bear attacks, do not play dead as they are scavengers and could see it as an easy meal. They have different defense/attack instincts than Grizzly's. There are more situations of them biting people as they are asleep in tents, hammocks, etc. They are more likely to be scared off by making yourself "big" yelling at it. They are more likely to "bluff" charge". Usually if a Grizzly is coming it is the real thing. They can climb a tree in one or two seconds, so DO NOT climb a tree. They are much better. Always face the black bear without looking directly into its eyes as they attack from behind generally (as most animals do). Obviously with either (or any animal for that fact), no not run as this is viewed from their perspective as you are the prey to be chased.
Both will attack to protect the cubs though. Both are less likely to attack if you are in large groups, but no guarantee.
It charged from 80 yards away. At about 25 feet he used Bear Spray with no success. The Bear kept charging. He had a holstered pistol, but it was torn from him in the attack.
After the first attack, about 10 minutes later the same bear was heard coming through the brush again and attacked him once more.
He was very fortunate this thing didn't catch an artery with it's teeth. He managed to hike 3 miles to his truck to drive himself to the hospital. How Ambulance crews were not enroute to meet him is beyond me as he called the hospital to tell him he was coming.
As an avid outdoorsy type of guy, I've been researching bears quite a lot. There is a very real danger when in Grizzly territory. I don't think bear spray is enough protection honestly. He probably should have just used the gun if the bear was in an all out charge. (sorry if this offends the gallery). Bear spray works as a deterrent if they are not in charge mode. Many examples of this.
A charging brown bear can cover 80 yards in five seconds. It's a lot harder to put a round on target than it is a stream of bear spray. Bear spray is a highly effective deterrence.
Of course, it's not a perfect deterrence. Nothing is. And, no - I'm not opposed to the use of firearms against bears in the wilderness. I simply take issue with the idea that they're needed and bear spray is not.
I'd also take issue that there is a significant danger from brown bears. Hundreds of thousands of people hit the backcountry in Yellowstone National Park every year, yet the injury rate due to brown bears is less than 2/year, while the fatality rate is about 1/decade. And plenty of idiots hit the Yellowstone backcountry each year. That's the reality, all emotions aside.
They're a concern, but so are a lot of things - gravity, exposure, the highways. A lot more people are killed every year by falls, hypothermia, and traffic accidents en route to the trailhead than by all attacking animals combined.
A charging brown bear can cover 80 yards in five seconds. It's a lot harder to put a round on target than it is a stream of bear spray. Bear spray is a highly effective deterrence.
And one also would need to be carrying a rather large caliber handgun in order for it to be effective for anything else than just outright ticking the grizzly off.
A charging brown bear can cover 80 yards in five seconds. It's a lot harder to put a round on target than it is a stream of bear spray. Bear spray is a highly effective deterrence.
Of course, it's not a perfect deterrence. Nothing is. And, no - I'm not opposed to the use of firearms against bears in the wilderness. I simply take issue with the idea that they're needed and bear spray is not.
I'd also take issue that there is a significant danger from brown bears. Hundreds of thousands of people hit the backcountry in Yellowstone National Park every year, yet the injury rate due to brown bears is less than 2/year, while the fatality rate is about 1/decade. And plenty of idiots hit the Yellowstone backcountry each year. That's the reality, all emotions aside.
They're a concern, but so are a lot of things - gravity, exposure, the highways. A lot more people are killed every year by falls, hypothermia, and traffic accidents en route to the trailhead than by all attacking animals combined.
I disagree that Bear spray is a better deterrent than a bullet at 5 seconds away from a charging bear. Bear spray takes around 6 seconds to become effective, which is confirmed by this attack and others that it was not enough. Many times the attack is upon the person in seconds as they generally stumble along cubs or walk over a hill or something ending up to looking directly at a Bear.
And it's kind of funny also due to the circumstance. In a Physics question, I just recently calculated the velocity of a certain mass bullet out of a hand gun with a certain force applied translating to momentum. The bullet will be much more effective much much faster than 6 seconds. Of course the person has to hit the target and have a high caliber pistol such as a 44 magnum to penetrate the skull of the animal, and it will most likely take multiple shots. Not ideal no but neither is the situation.
And agreed that the risk is relatively low to get attacked by a bear, but you or I do not want to be the 1 or 2 out of hundred that gets attacked, which does happen.
In this case, the bear spray was ineffective in deterring the attack from the charging bear applied from 25 feet away as the report says. I have seen bear spray work as a deterrent to ward off bears from a particular area where tourists were which worked well, but they weren't in an all out charge either.
And it's kind of funny also due to the circumstance. In a Physics question, I just recently calculated the velocity of a certain mass bullet out of a hand gun with a certain force applied translating to momentum. The bullet will be much more effective much much faster than 6 seconds. Of course the person has to hit the target and have a high caliber pistol such as a 44 magnum to penetrate the skull of the animal, and it will most likely take multiple shots. Not ideal no but neither is the situation.
How long, though, do those multiple shots take from a high caliber handgun?
Assuming that the person is, in fact, capable of handling such a gun (which is a rather big assumption in and of itself), how many shots will they be able to fire off within 6 seconds, at a moving target?
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I should add, I have quite a lot of experience with black bears not much with grizzlys. These are my observations and opinions, yours may differ.
Black bears will not usually attack unless there is food involved. A Grizzly is different, besides the cub issue they seem to be more territorial and will charge just because you are there.
A .44 or 10mm is a "bear" minimum. Any handgun requires some luck. If I lived in grizzly country I'd probably upgrade to a .45-70 or Smith 500 pistol. But pistols are still last ditch guns. A 12 ga with slugs or a high powered rifle, like a .45-70 or a .375 is more effective.
Problem is hiking in many places with a long gun is problematic. The animal lovers will consider you insane, the tourists will think you are scary. Like at Yellowstone. I've never seen anyone with a gun and only a few with spray. I was there this summer for three days and saw one person with spray on their belt out hiking. We kept our .44 in the day pack, on short hikes.
Bear spray will not stop a charging bear, they run through it and are on you before it affects them. It will be effective on a posturing bear or one not committed to attack or who is confused about what you are.
This is what happened to Todd, the bear ran through the spray cloud. At 25 feet you often can't stop a bear unless you break the leg or shoulder bones to "anchor" it. There are numerous stories of the momentum carrying the bear forward even after being "killed.". You aren't going to get a head shot on a charging bear except by a miricle, and if you do, good chance a frontal shot will deflect by the skull. A side hit is different.
All this said, there ARE bears that break off attacks after being shot with smaller guns. One I recall was near Yellowstone, not far from Todd's attack that was very similar. The guy depolyed bear spray at 25 feet to no effect, then shot the bear at 15 feet with a .357, wounding it, but breaking the attack.
Now - all this said, a guy got arrested for shooting a grizzly outside of Yellowstone a few years ago for using a rifle and shooting it at something like 50 YARDS (150 ft). He claimed self defense, but it was held to be an unreasonable fear and not a justified threat at that distance. (I personally think the guy was poaching and got caught.) Had he used a handgun it might have been a different result.
So there you go. Somewhere between 15 and under 150 feet a bear can be a threat according to the courts. You need a weapon that will stop it in that range. Probably with one shot as there may not be time for another.
Last edited by jamies; 10-05-2016 at 03:16 PM..
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