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Old 04-24-2017, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,599,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I went on a school trip to France when I was 13. We were all fine and had a great trip.

The vast majority of school trips pass without incident. One isolated tragedy should not be allowed to ruin the experience for everyone.
Belize isn't France.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,766,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Belize isn't France.
I'm pretty sure Jaggy knows that, the point is being brought up about over seas class trips at young ages being proper or not.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:24 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
6,639 posts, read 4,571,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Belize isn't France.
yes its part of england still i think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
I'm pretty sure Jaggy knows that, the point is being brought up about over seas class trips at young ages being proper or not.
i think the insinuation is that european countries are somehow safer than central american ones ? someone upthread mentioned its ok to send your kid to canada but not to mexico ?
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:49 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,919,186 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Belize isn't France.
I'm well aware of that. The point is that a blanket refusal to send kids on overseas trips is inane. Some countries are safer than others. Some countries are considerably safer than the USA. Personally, I would be very uncomfortable sending my child to a country that I was unwilling to go to myself (e.g. Mexico). However, I would be very comfortable allowing younger than 14 to go on school trips to countries such as France, Canada or the UK.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:51 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,202 posts, read 107,859,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I'm well aware of that. The point is that a blanket refusal to send kids on overseas trips is inane. Some countries are safer than others. Some countries are considerably safer than the USA. Personally, I would be very uncomfortable sending my child to a country that I was unwilling to go to myself (e.g. Mexico). However, I would be very comfortable allowing younger than 14 to go on school trips to countries such as France, Canada or the UK.
But the fact that Belize may be high crime and unsafe is irrelevant to this incident. A kid could go swimming in a river and drown during a school tour of Canada just as easily as in Belize. The problem was that the group leaders weren't paying attention, and didn't make sure all the kids were out of the water and with them on the shore.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:53 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,919,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
yes its part of england still i think.i think the insinuation is that european countries are somehow safer than central american ones ? someone upthread mentioned its ok to send your kid to canada but not to mexico ?
No, Belize is independent. The big concern was the Guatemalan territorial claim. As a result, there is still a British military presence in Belize.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:54 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,919,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
But the fact that Belize may be high crime and unsafe is irrelevant to this incident. A kid could go swimming in a river and drown during a school tour of Canada just as easily as in Belize. The problem was that the group leaders weren't paying attention, and didn't make sure all the kids were out of the water and with them on the shore.
I agree. This tragedy could have happened anywhere. As such, it is not an argument against kids going on school trips overseas.
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:01 PM
 
3,977 posts, read 8,171,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You wouldn't have been able to miss the fact that he was drowning, if you were looking in his direction, because unlike the scenario outlined in the "how to recognize drowning" article, in the Belize case, the boy called for help several times.
No, that is not true. It happens in waterparks/city pools/at the beach/in your back yard pool all the time. Drowning is silent. Drowning is not flailing arms, shouting for help. If you are drowning, you are struggling to breath. Your lungs are full of water and you cannot scream. People may actually see your last breath and be completely unaware because from a distance you do not seem like you are having trouble. He may have called out but where did his voice carry to? Was the wind blowing it out into the water, was it sounded out by other voices, the water itself, etc.

My son is a first rescuer, was a lifeguard, worked for a company that trains life guards for ocean rescues, theme parks, water parks, and city pools. I have learned a lot from him. You would be surprised how many rescues happen in 1 slide area of a water park and the water is only 4 or 5ft deep in the pool at the end. People get scared and don't even try to stand up in the waist deep water sometimes. We make lots of mistakes out of fear. We forget what we are supposed to do in our panic.



After reading all the posts my thoughts.....

Rescuing even a child can be hard and the child can take down the guard if the guard does not get control. Lifeguards carry the red tubes and tell you to grab them and try noot to have to physically grab the person because of the danger of them bringing them down too. They have even had to hit a person to stop them from struggling so they both don't drown drown..
BUT in this case....

The go pro camera on this child was on his head. You see what he sees. It does not mean any people he saw were aware that he was having trouble getting into shore or out of the water. We do not know if they heard him call out. The last clip that was shown was his hand reaching out for a rock. He is in the water below the rock lower than the ground people are standing on and I doubt anyone could even see him there. Also they found him in 30 ft of water. That is not where he drowned. He probably drowned right by that rock silently. No one knew it happened. Then his body was probably swept out to the deeper water.

As a teacher, as a summer camp director, as a chaperone for many field trips and a mom, I would say the 6 chaperones for 30 kids was a good number.
The kids who went on this trip 1. Had to get permission from parents 2. Parents had to pay for the trip. 3. Parents had to pay for and get the passport for them to go on the trip. If they did not feel comfortable with the teachers or the chaperones going it was up to them to speak up, keep their kids at home, or volunteer, too.
That tells me she and the other 30 parents were OK with sending their kids on this trip.

4. I am also sure that this was more than just sending a permission slip home. There were meetings for the parents, kids, teachers to discuss the trip and to go over all the plans, the requirements etc. for the trip.

5. Every parent has the opportunity to be a chaperone so they now cannot say their child was too young etc. because they gave permission and paid for the trip.

6. To the perso who brought up the "white chaperones and teachers...............As a parent, teacher, and chaperone.... I have to say all children are treated equal and the color of their skin is not even thought about. To say no one cared enough to even see him or left him drown basically on purpose because he was the only black kid is the most assinine thing I have ever heard. If you know a teacher you know every single one of her/his students become part of the teacher's family. You love them, worry about them, and consider them your kids for that year and maybe forever-even kids that were a handful.

7. When he decided to go on the field trip- remember there is probably 200 other kids in their class who did not go- who did he plan to spend his time with? Usually you figure this out before you go. As a parent I would want to know who my son was going to partner up with on the trip to keep an eye out for weach other.

8. We usually assigned a parent to 5 kids when they were 8, but 14 is junior high so technichally only need a chaperone for every 20 kids here in Florida. In Georgia it might be 10 or 15. So there was not lack of chaperones. How were they organized? Were they told what their job would be in the pre meetings?

There are a lot of facts not known.....1. Were there life guards provided by the company? 2. Were there life preservers offered? 3. How long were they in the water. 4. How do they know it was an hour before they missed him? 5. When did the whole group reassemble.? Is that when he came up missing.


It is a very sad accident and no one is totally at fault. The facts will come out in court on how the trip was planned, organized, and ran.

It only takes a second to drown. Just looking down to answer your cell phone or checking a post is long enough for an accident to happen. Shoot, on a field trip to the old jail in St. Augustine we had a kid fall off a balcony and break a leg even though he was right next to his mom who was chaperoning.

My heart and prayers go out to the family of this young man, May he rest in peace and may his mom find comfort knowing he is in the arms of the Lord.

Last edited by Rabflmom; 04-24-2017 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:30 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,202 posts, read 107,859,557 times
Reputation: 116113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabflmom View Post
No, that is not true. It happens in waterparks/city pools/at the beach/in your back yard pool all the time. Drowning is silent. Drowning is not flailing arms, shouting for help..
It certainly was in the case under discussion on this thread.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,560 posts, read 84,755,078 times
Reputation: 115053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I've been a youth leader taking kids out camping and such.


I always counted heads constantly. Constantly.
I did the same as a Girl Scout leader. Always counting.
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