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I suspect they'll argue that the criminal prosecution will have to be over first. With no big payday for defending GP in criminal court, there's a chance common sense may prevail, and it'll be damn hard for the family to return to civil court with a criminal conviction against GP already.
I suspect they'll argue that the criminal prosecution will have to be over first. With no big payday for defending GP in criminal court, there's a chance common sense may prevail, and it'll be damn hard for the family to return to civil court with a criminal conviction against GP already.
As I recall, the window was not low like where your knees are located ....but rather up high, so nobody could "run through an open window" instead the window up high, near or higher than gramp's chest, so the only way that very young child could have gotten near an open window, is when he lifted her UP to the window. Correct me if I am wrong about anything
And with that, who's fault is it? if that matters, a child is gone now but in terms of liability, is it the cruise ships fault or gramp's fault?
No naval architect I, but these matters are regulated and monitored to a crazy degree, both by the flag nation, the international conventions and the insurance companies holding the bag if someone lets passengers onto a weather deck without proper safety installations. Guardrails tend to be at 36 inches or 39.5 inches (1 meter). In the US, there are specific rules as to the loads they must be able to withstand.
There are some here that are "expert" on aspects of the case, such as that specific vessel, weather patterns, and protocols for boarding.
And??
None of us is privy to the actual facts of the case. Everything we've shared is second-and third-party info and pure speculation.
My comments were directed to our local cruise expert Wolves, who tried to inform us all that no cruise ever "begins" at night, when this one did, and here we are in an argument about semantics.
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Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Why on Earth would there even begin to be a legal burden on the cruise line to prove the necessity of having a window open in court? It's their damn ship, they can open windows as they feel like it. A reasonable 21st-century adult can be expected to recognize a window and behave accordingly.
This particular window was even quite well-designed - too high for a toddler to even reach and it had a handrail about one foot inboard as an added safety feature.
It seems you don't understand civil law.
I am curious, about the lawyer's assertion that they were in violation of safety code. I know, for sure, when you go out onto a balcony that's that high up the railing comes up much higher, and many buildings with floors that high have windows that don't open.
For just this reason.
On the outer balconies of this ship, are the railings hip high? I'd seriously doubt it.
I am curious, about the lawyer's assertion that they were in violation of safety code. I know, for sure, when you go out onto a balcony that's that high up the railing comes up much higher, and many buildings with floors that high have windows that don't open.
For just this reason.
On the outer balconies of this ship, are the railings hip high? I'd seriously doubt it.
I have been on the sister ship, the railings are not hip high. I am 5'3-5'4 and the railings are up to my breast. The windows slant slightly outward and open because they are in the eating area of the pool deck. They can be opened, and they slide open, by anyone and usually are opened by a passenger sitting at one of the tables wanting to take pictures or have a breeze. You can tell a window is open, easily. The railings are not made to be standing on. Again they are high enough up.
The grandfather made a serious mistake in judgement, should he be charged? In my opinion, no because I think he is suffering enough but at the same time it is not the cruise ships fault for his irresponsibility. They are just looking for someone to blame because it is awful to have to realize your dad's actions caused your daughters death. If you go here https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...512461862.html half way down the page you can see someone standing at the window showing how he put the child up on the rail. The railings on all balconies are high enough you can't accidentally fall off. All incidents of people falling over board were either self inflicted stupidity or because of someone else aka murder.
There is no violation of safety code. These same windows were on every cruise I have been on from Royal Caribbean to NCL to Carnival. When open in port the noise alone below tells you that the window is open if not the difference in color between a closed window and an open one.
Exactly, people who drive drunk and kill someone on their way home, don't intend to do that. But it happens, you don't get a pass because you "feel bad", and that should be enough.
This guy was an idiot.
Add to DUI the 50 parents who leave their kids to die in hot cars every year. It's a safe bet that 99% of them suffer from eternal regret. If eternal regret becomes a part of our legal system, the way some here would like, child endangerment might as well not even be against the law. Eternal regret would become a Get Out Of Jail Free card, for anybody who wants to use it.
Interested layman, but I rather think I do. A vessel operator doesn't have the obligation to defend something like opening a window, as long as the window is installed as per the safety regulations governing such.
Quote:
I am curious, about the lawyer's assertion that they were in violation of safety code.
That, on the other hand, is relevant. Although I have serious doubts that they are in violation of relevant safety codes.
Quote:
I know, for sure, when you go out onto a balcony that's that high up the railing comes up much higher, and many buildings with floors that high have windows that don't open.
For just this reason.
Ships aren't buildings. Different codes. Different body of law. And ships are inspected much more diligently than buildings are.
Quote:
On the outer balconies of this ship, are the railings hip high? I'd seriously doubt it.
I see cruise ships going by all the time. They have standard height guard rails on their sea-facing balconies. It's a ship, first and foremost, and we've developed a ton of rules to keep those remarkably safe - although they cannot be idiot-proofed.
Either way - No matter how many times someone has been on a cruise, none of us here is an expert on what happened with this incident or on THIS boat, and the best thing we ALL can do is stop acting like we are.
You don't have to be an expert on cruising, you just can't be dumb enough not to know what wind on your face feels like, and consider where that wind may be coming from - especially when you're standing right in front of an open window.
It would be no different than standing your 1 year old on a railing in front of the windows of a taller building. "Gee, I'm feeling a breeze here by the windows. Maybe the window is open? Naw, I'll just sit this 1 year old on the railing and let go of her...everything will be fine."
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35,622 posts, read 17,953,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Interested layman, but I rather think I do. A vessel operator doesn't have the obligation to defend something like opening a window, as long as the window is installed as per the safety regulations governing such.
That, on the other hand, is relevant. Although I have serious doubts that they are in violation of relevant safety codes.
Ships aren't buildings. Different codes. Different body of law. And ships are inspected much more diligently than buildings are.
I see cruise ships going by all the time. They have standard height guard rails on their sea-facing balconies. It's a ship, first and foremost, and we've developed a ton of rules to keep those remarkably safe - although they cannot be idiot-proofed.
It's the same danger, though. An open window on an 11th floor building, vs an open window on the 11th floor of a cruise ship.
This isn't like a military vessel, or cargo ship. This cruise ship should have the same kind of safety in mind that Disney parks have, or any accommodation that is to be used unsupervised by the public.
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