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That's what I think - she was in front of him but not through the window. I don't understand someone saying she wasn't against him and wasn't on the railing. We can't see that from the video.
Also, in that picture above there is CLEARLY a window ledge that she could have been standing on without being outside the window. The track for the window is beyond that. The grandfather said she went to bang on the window. I think he did think there was a window there. I think he did have her in front of him where she could bang on the window. Except there wasn't a window.
Right. It is in no way impossible to stand a child on a window ledge when the window is closed--especially if the child is leaning back a bit. In this case, the actual windows slanted slightly outward, giving even more room.
I'm not sure if this was your point but I agree in that the railing is a safety measure/barrier, as railings tend to be wherever they may be located. The fact that he lifted the child over the safety barrier towards the danger that the railing was designed to prevent access to is all that needs to be known.....the rest of it is really insignificant details.
Pretty much.
Did Royal Caribbean fulfill their duty of care to a reasonable person by designing a ship with a railing well above waist height, 18 inches inboard of the window opening? Yes.
Was there a history of problems with that window design that Royal Caribbean knew of, yet ignored? No.
Is the window design in accordance with relevant marine statutes? Yes.
That settles it. Or would, in a sensible world.
Do I, personally, believe that he thought the window was closed? Nah. But for the case against RCL, that's irrelevant.
It is puzzling to me that this little girl was held up to this open window, beyond the safety railing, for 30+ seconds, and NO ONE else noticed or was concerned enough to intervene? I know there are a lot of things going on, everyone is excited about their own vacation and activities, but it seems like *someone* would have noticed this horrible tragedy in the making and said something.
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Originally Posted by kayanne
It is puzzling to me that this little girl was held up to this open window, beyond the safety railing, for 30+ seconds, and NO ONE else noticed or was concerned enough to intervene? I know there are a lot of things going on, everyone is excited about their own vacation and activities, but it seems like *someone* would have noticed this horrible tragedy in the making and said something.
I agree with you, except as the video proves, there is virtually no angle where you can actually SEE what's going on. Probably from behind, his body blocked people's view of Chloe, and from the side, as we've seen in the video, you also can't see her once he lifts her up.
Passengers would have to have been watching the entire time to notice what was happening.
It is puzzling to me that this little girl was held up to this open window, beyond the safety railing, for 30+ seconds, and NO ONE else noticed or was concerned enough to intervene? I know there are a lot of things going on, everyone is excited about their own vacation and activities, but it seems like *someone* would have noticed this horrible tragedy in the making and said something.
People are in their own world, talking among themselves in a bar area. You can see in the videos that the area is not like a pool area where many are watching a central space. No one really could see in front of him anyway - really not much for anyone to notice.
I agree with you, except as the video proves, there is virtually no angle where you can actually SEE what's going on. Probably from behind, his body blocked people's view of Chloe, and from the side, as we've seen in the video, you also can't see her once he lifts her up.
Passengers would have to have been watching the entire time to notice what was happening.
They say there were something like 13 cameras. I wish we could see other views. I think if he were doing something particularly egregious, like dangling her outside the window, someone would have noticed - maybe someone further down the bank of windows. But you're right - our view is blocked, at least from the camera angle that we see.
It makes me nervous when I see a man carrying a very small child on his shoulders, a baby or child that is too young to hold on. I always notice when I see that. I think mothers always notice when they see a child in a potentially dangerous situation. Either people saw and they weren't concerned because Sam wasn't doing anything that they thought put Chloe in danger, or everyone's view was blocked.
There had to be literally thousands of people milling around. I would think if he were dangling her out the window, someone on another deck would have seen that, or someone on the dock, or someone somewhere.
I agree with you, except as the video proves, there is virtually no angle where you can actually SEE what's going on. Probably from behind, his body blocked people's view of Chloe, and from the side, as we've seen in the video, you also can't see her once he lifts her up.
Passengers would have to have been watching the entire time to notice what was happening.
Perhaps you're correct, that no one was able to see the child for the man's body blocking the view. That makes more sense than thinking no one cared enough to say something.
It is heartbreaking, whatever the details were. Every morning those parents wake up to a world without their precious little girl. I can't even imagine that.
People are in their own world, talking among themselves in a bar area. You can see in the videos that the area is not like a pool area where many are watching a central space. No one really could see in front of him anyway - really not much for anyone to notice.
Yes I agree. Also there have been several incidents where parents held their kids beyond safety barriers at zoos to get a better look, and there were many people there who said nothing. Two that come to mind were the toddler who fell into the gorilla pit, and a more tragic case where a little boy fell into an enclosure with some kind of African wild dogs and was killed by them. People don’t tend to interfere when it comes to things like this. Once when I was in the Cape May-Lewes Ferry which is very large ship, and someone had their small child sitting on the ledge with no barrier. Privately I thought he was nuts and stupid but I didn’t say anything.
They say there were something like 13 cameras. I wish we could see other views. I think if he were doing something particularly egregious, like dangling her outside the window, someone would have noticed - maybe someone further down the bank of windows. But you're right - our view is blocked, at least from the camera angle that we see.
It makes me nervous when I see a man carrying a very small child on his shoulders, a baby or child that is too young to hold on. I always notice when I see that. I think mothers always notice when they see a child in a potentially dangerous situation. Either people saw and they weren't concerned because Sam wasn't doing anything that they thought put Chloe in danger, or everyone's view was blocked.
There had to be literally thousands of people milling around. I would think if he were dangling her out the window, someone on another deck would have seen that, or someone on the dock, or someone somewhere.
No where near that - certainly not in that area where he was. And folks on the dock are not looking up at windows on a ship...doubtful they would have even noticed it that far away, and as quickly as it happened.
Yes I agree. Also there have been several incidents where parents held their kids beyond safety barriers at zoos to get a better look, and there were many people there who said nothing. Two that come to mind were the toddler who fell into the gorilla pit, and a more tragic case where a little boy fell into an enclosure with some kind of African wild dogs and was killed by them. People don’t tend to interfere when it comes to things like this. Once when I was in the Cape May-Lewes Ferry which is very large ship, and someone had their small child sitting on the ledge with no barrier. Privately I thought he was nuts and stupid but I didn’t say anything.
Yup. You say something to people these days about their kids and you risk getting headslapped - not that that ever stopped me.
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