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People are overanalyzing this. I think the grandfather told a number of untruths and/or halftruths about what happened, but it seems very likely that the very last thing that happened at that window was exactly what he said: he moved her forward (and she leaned forward) to "tap on the glass" (or look out the window, if he knew it was open).
Chloe could have been sitting on the railing or held at his chest for most of the 30+ seconds they were standing there, but at the end, there was a sudden forward thrust on his part and probably on her part as well. Really, that's the only thing that makes sense. He wasn't holding her at arm's length all that time, and she wasn't reaching out for nonexistent glass for over 30 seconds. That happened in a flash right before she fell, and is why he could say "I lifted her up, and in an instant she was gone" and have it be sort of true, at least in his mind. Until those last seconds, she was probably in a reasonably secure position. He lifted her from wherever she had been, moved her toward the window, and in an instant she fell out.
Sure. I'm sure this was just a terrible accident. But, the problem is the way the family is framing it. If they simply said "this was a terrible accident" as well, it wouldn't be such a big deal. It's them who are trying to overjustify, blame the cruise line, etc., instead of just saying it was what everyone knows it was: somehow he lost his grip, the child fell, it was awful but unintentional. If it wasn't for that, people would probably just be saying "how awful, that poor family," and not joining in to overanalyze whether there could be any truth to what the family claims.
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Originally Posted by luzianne
The ship's capacity is almost 4,000. So yes there are literally thousands of people, although granted not in that immediate area. Not to mention it was in port so there would have been people in the port. And yes, people on the dock do look at and take pictures of ships in port. I did it myself six weeks ago and I wasn't the only one.
And what is someone standing on the dock taking pictures going to do between the time he put the kid in the window and she fell? Run to someone in authority, tell them they need to have someone on the ship stop the guy, convince them they're not wacko, convince them to contact someone, they get in contact with someone, explain the situation, this person goes to the area, to pull him back from the window? How long do you suppose that would take?
Media usually have inside connections. That's how they were able to get the 2 videos from the police. A list of names couldn't really be that much of a stretch.
But even from the beginning, I can't even remember one person that was on the ship commenting about the situation. At most, there was a poster here who said (s)he spoke to a couple people on the ship and that the stories were all over the place. I just find it strange. Other events the media find somebody to talk... Just not this one.
And what is someone standing on the dock taking pictures going to do between the time he put the kid in the window and she fell? Run to someone in authority, tell them they need to have someone on the ship stop the guy, convince them they're not wacko, convince them to contact someone, they get in contact with someone, explain the situation, this person goes to the area, to pull him back from the window? How long do you suppose that would take?
Why would I expect someone on the dock to do something? I was just saying that people might have witnessed what happened, or part of what happened, not that they were in a position to stop it from happening.
If anyone did see anything, though, they probably have been told not to talk.
people are overanalyzing this. I think the grandfather told a number of untruths and/or halftruths about what happened, but it seems very likely that the very last thing that happened at that window was exactly what he said: He moved her forward (and she leaned forward) to "tap on the glass" (or look out the window, if he knew it was open).
Chloe could have been sitting on the railing or held at his chest for most of the 30+ seconds they were standing there, but at the end, there was a sudden forward thrust on his part and probably on her part as well. Really, that's the only thing that makes sense. He wasn't holding her at arm's length all that time, and she wasn't reaching out for nonexistent glass for over 30 seconds. That happened in a flash right before she fell, and is why he could say "i lifted her up, and in an instant she was gone" and have it be sort of true, at least in his mind. Until those last seconds, she was probably in a reasonably secure position. He lifted her from wherever she had been, moved her toward the window, and in an instant she fell out.
People are overanalyzing this. I think the grandfather told a number of untruths and/or halftruths about what happened, but it seems very likely that the very last thing that happened at that window was exactly what he said: he moved her forward (and she leaned forward) to "tap on the glass" (or look out the window, if he knew it was open).
Chloe could have been sitting on the railing or held at his chest for most of the 30+ seconds they were standing there, but at the end, there was a sudden forward thrust on his part and probably on her part as well. Really, that's the only thing that makes sense. He wasn't holding her at arm's length all that time, and she wasn't reaching out for nonexistent glass for over 30 seconds. That happened in a flash right before she fell, and is why he could say "I lifted her up, and in an instant she was gone" and have it be sort of true, at least in his mind. Until those last seconds, she was probably in a reasonably secure position. He lifted her from wherever she had been, moved her toward the window, and in an instant she fell out.
It sounds like you are doing a bit of your own overanalyzing. Lets just deal with the facts from the video. Grandpa picked her up, then leaned over the railing and held her out in front of him for what appeared to be about 30 seconds. Maybe it was 25 seconds. I don't know, don't care, doesn't matter. Then he dropped her and she fell to the ground. There was no sudden forward thrust, unless maybe it came from grandpa throwing her out the window. But there is no evidence of that in the video. It looks like he just dropped her. There is also no evidence of any jet engines going off nearby, or any 150 mph hurricane force winds blowing through the ship that could have created a sudden forward thrust that could have blown her out the window. So what caused this sudden forward thrust that you claim happened?
It sounds like you are doing a bit of your own overanalyzing. Lets just deal with the facts from the video. Grandpa picked her up, then leaned over the railing and held her out in front of him for what appeared to be about 30 seconds. Maybe it was 25 seconds. I don't know, don't care, doesn't matter. Then he dropped her and she fell to the ground. There was no sudden forward thrust, unless maybe it came from grandpa throwing her out the window. But there is no evidence of that in the video. It looks like he just dropped her. There is also no evidence of any jet engines going off nearby, or any 150 mph hurricane force winds blowing through the ship that could have created a sudden forward thrust that could have blown her out the window. So what caused this sudden forward thrust that you claim happened?
Geez.
He moved her forward closer to where the window would have been. He may have encouraged her to start banging, so she stretched out her hands and leaned forward. That's it. Those were the possible forward motions I suggested. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious in the video because it wouldn't be a huge, dramatic motion.
I don't believe he was holding her motionless out in front of him, outside the window, for 30 seconds and then suddenly for no reason let go. I also don't believe he threw her out the window.
I don't believe he was holding her motionless out in front of him, outside the window, for 30 seconds and then suddenly for no reason let go. I also don't believe he threw her out the window.
I don't think he threw her out the window either, but I also believe there was the chance that he was pulling a michael jackson and held her out the window and lost his grip.
He moved her forward closer to where the window would have been. He may have encouraged her to start banging, so she stretched out her hands and leaned forward. That's it. Those were the possible forward motions I suggested. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious in the video because it wouldn't be a huge, dramatic motion.
I don't believe he was holding her motionless out in front of him, outside the window, for 30 seconds and then suddenly for no reason let go. I also don't believe he threw her out the window.
Agreed. He wasn't holding her out of the window. That's obvious because you see his right elbow BENT in the entire video. If he held her out the window, he would have had to lean forward and straighten his arm to extend her out of the window. He clearly did not straighten his arm.
He moved her forward closer to where the window would have been. He may have encouraged her to start banging, so she stretched out her hands and leaned forward. That's it. Those were the possible forward motions I suggested. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious in the video because it wouldn't be a huge, dramatic motion.
I don't believe he was holding her motionless out in front of him, outside the window, for 30 seconds and then suddenly for no reason let go. I also don't believe he threw her out the window.
Well then you are telling everybody not to believe their own eyes when they watch the video. You are making no sense whatsoever. You claim a forward thrust (now a forward motion) pushed her out the window. But you give no explanation for who or what caused that forward thrust, or motion, except that grandpa, the only person near her, wasn't responsible.
Well then you are telling everybody not to believe their own eyes when they watch the video. You are making no sense whatsoever. You claim a forward thrust (now a forward motion) pushed her out the window. But you give no explanation for who or what caused that forward thrust, or motion, except that grandpa, the only person near her, wasn't responsible.
Where did I say that grandpa wasn't responsible? He undoubtedly lifted her over the railing, and I believe he deliberately moved her forward, closer to the open window. If she had been held close to him when he let go, she would have fallen down inside the ship. Since he let go when she was moving forward across the plane of the window (my theory), she fell out.
I think I have been very clear about that.
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He undoubtedly lifted her over the railing, and I believe he deliberately moved her forward, closer to the open window. If she had been held close to him when he let go, she would have fallen down inside the ship. Since he let go when she was moving forward across the plane of the window (my theory), she fell out. 