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I think you're thinking of dogs. Babies don't have a natural swimming instinct. They make instinctively make similar movements in water, but definitely can't swim.
You're right. They have survival "swim" classes for infants, my bff had her kids in when they were 6 months old. They teach them to roll over onto their backs as many babies die because they fall in pools, etc face down. They put them on their stomachs in the water then roll them over, and do it over and over and over, so that it becomes second nature and if they fall in a pool or water they will roll onto their backs and hopefully be ale to stay alive until they are rescued.
People think babies can swim because babies hold their breaths automatically. if a baby can take a breath before submersion its very similar to swimming. obviously they cant swim but the basis for the misnomer is correct.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockeye66
Okay, I'm imagening.
What I'm seeing in either a zoo or aquarium is a railing standing approx 4 ft high from the ground. What we do know is the ships railing was 11 stories from the dock.
Two very significant risk factors.
If the window were closed, as the grandfather believed it was, the risk is exactly the same as in the zoo or aquarium.
They hired the attorney to try and put all the blame on RC. Every statement made by their lawyer is about how RC was negligent, they shouldn't have windows that open, etc...
Agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
If indulging her love of banging on glass was important, why stand in front of an open window? I think he probably wasn't aware she was accustomed to banging on glass. She surprised him, and he wasn't ready for it. But why choose an open window anyway, even just to look at the view?
Agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
That (the bold) could have happened. It is more likely than what the San Juan Port Authority first stated - that the baby fell when the grandfather "slipped" or "lost his balance." That that was so unlikely on a solid deck on a docked ship probably led some to conclude the grandfather had to have been doing some "else" - like dangling her etc.
Fortunately the vast majority of adults do not dangle children from heights; more, however, might use a railing for support even though that's far from wise in some locations.
While I can see the above scenario, I also think we tend to err in conclusions because it is natural to imagine ourselves in the situation like standing at that window. This inevitably drops what might be key variables because we were not there. For example, there is almost no breeze on many tropical days - that's what I love about the tropics (we enjoy eco lodges) - you really can't tell if you are inside or outside. Even at 11 stories, the cruise ship may well have been docked up against another.
So I can still envision more than one scenario. Perhaps it's not so much that he mistook an open window for one that is closed but never really looked and only assumed since the others were closed per both the family and the Port Authority statement.
That railing has minimal room for the little girl's feet between it and a closed window - maybe about 6 inches. He could have approached it looking downward preparing to settle her on the railing and fit her feet in. Alternatively he might have intended for her to stand on it while supported and approached the wall lifting her into place putting her body between himself and the "window" blocking his view.
That accident took only a second to happen. We're focusing on the window; maybe he focusing instead on his granddaughter did not.
This is such a tragedy for the family that I suppose my inclination is to not come to a highly negative conclusion absent a police report etc. Maybe that falls within the category of giving them the benefit of doubt which seems both appropriate and a kindness. It's human to be judgmental from the first with facts in many situations hard to come by. What social media does is to allow us to transfer our private opinions into the public arena in a way that potentially contributes to the overall harm. On the other hand, it also allows us to learn - for example, to be that much careful of our own children. Mixed blessing.
It is a terrible tragedy. Nobody wants to place blame where it belongs because it is too horrendous of a thought - the grandfather was responsible for the death of his beloved grandchild. I do not believe he was dangling the baby. I believe he lost control of the situation because he did not expect her to lunge forward.
I believe he was responsible and probably negligent in his care of the baby, but I do not believe his actions to be criminal. There are many ways people can be held accountable for their actions. Grandpa's personal h3ll is worse than any punishment a court could impose. I hope the authorities pass on prosecution, the family passes on a lawsuit, and the legacy of this baby's life becomes a private family affair.
That grandfather is in h*ll. He thought the window was closed as he was holding her on the ledge and she usually pounds at the window! This time she pounded forward and flew out the open window! Horrible tragedy.
It is a terrible tragedy. Nobody wants to place blame where it belongs because it is too horrendous of a thought - the grandfather was responsible for the death of his beloved grandchild. I do not believe he was dangling the baby. I believe he lost control of the situation because he did not expect her to lunge forward.
I believe he was responsible and probably negligent in his care of the baby, but I do not believe his actions to be criminal. There are many ways people can be held accountable for their actions. Grandpa's personal h3ll is worse than any punishment a court could impose. I hope the authorities pass on prosecution, the family passes on a lawsuit, and the legacy of this baby's life becomes a private family affair.
That (the bold) could well be a factor in some responses. The corollary, however, might also be true. That it is threatening to know something this horrible can happen even to someone who is being reasonably careful. Randomness can be a hard factor to have in our lives, particularly when it impacts the helpless children for whom we're making decisions. The self-protective pushback becomes the grandfather *had* to be doing something wrong.
I'd mentioned earlier in this thread that we'd been on the Freedom of the Seas deck 11 shortly before the crew closed it to passengers as it crossed the tail end of a hurricane. I won't rehash it here but it was a wonderful memory that my daughter has of her grandmother who within a few years lapsed into a fast moving dementia. We were very careful, particularly of my stepmother but had there been an accident I would have castigated myself.
We like to think that we can be careful "enough."
Edited to add: Per my earlier e-mail that was not clear, I, too, could see a scenario where she lunged towards the open space of a window known to him to be open catching him by surprise. And understood you did not think he was dangling her - a conclusion that some came to after confusing SJ Port Authority comments.
Last edited by EveryLady; 07-12-2019 at 01:38 PM..
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
35,620 posts, read 17,953,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemyfl
That grandfather is in h*ll. He thought the window was closed as he was holding her on the ledge and she usually pounds at the window! This time she pounded forward and flew out the open window! Horrible tragedy.
This is so sad, and my guess is, his health will fail. Broken heart.
I just watched a story where they showed footage filmed from inside the ship by her father "shortly after it happened" and the exterior of the ship. Its nighttime. Was it dark when she fell? If so, that would certainly explain his inability to tell which window was open since a little better
The accident happened 4:15-4:30 in the afternoon. The sun set on Sunday at 7:05 PM.
Family’s attorney says grandpa placed her on the ledge and let go of her. He is claiming negligence on the part of the cruise line for having windows that open.
No, it wouldn't explain it, because the lights in that observation area would probably still be on, and they would reflect in the glass.
The accident happened between 4:15-4:30 with 2- hours of daylight remaining.
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