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I wouldn't even call this an error in judgement. If he had known the window was open but still decided to put her on the railing so she could look out, that would be an error in judgement.
This is a failure to observe that the window he thought was in place, actually was not.
Similar to placing a baby down in the beach sand near a rattlesnake that he didn't see.
He just didn't see that the window was open.
I don't understand this line of thinking. EVERYTHING related to the window is irrelevant. Why is everyone who is defending the grandfather ignoring the fact that the only reason this happened was because the grandfather did something no responsible adult who thinks of child safety first would ever do? This moron decided to put the child where he had no business putting her. He put her on a hand railing! He used a structure for a purpose that it was not built for and paid for it with this poor babies life. If we go by this type of crazy logic, people should be able to sue Toyota when they become paralyzed from an accident caused by them taking a Corolla "off roading." Or maybe I should sue the manufacturer of my house for a broken leg because I decided to purposely skip steps on my staircase when I came down the stairs. The level of denial of personal responsibility it takes to try to justify this type of behavior simply astounds me. I don't think the grandfather is criminally negligent. However, people like him who are this clueless regarding child safety have no business supervising kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire
Glad to see the "Perfect Parent Posse" have made it to this thread. They never disappoint.
You know I bet you were really proud of yourself when you came up with this little witty remark. I don't think you realize that sometimes what sounds great inside your head sounds ridiculous to the majority of society. This whole notion of "everyone makes mistakes" that your trying so hard to push is not applicable to lapses in judgement related to child rearing that can cause death. I was going to write a detailed post on how silly it is to take this stance but I have a better idea. Let me give you a scenario:
Imagine a couple is trying to decide on a babysitter to watch their 1 year old child for 3 days. They have narrowed the candidates down to two twins. Meaning they are both identical in terms of their physical capacity to care for the child. They just have one difference. They differ in their opinion of this particular story about the grandfather who dropped his granddaughter from the window:
Twin A believes: Your not allowed to make certain mistakes when it comes to caring for a child.
Twin B believes: No one is perfect, anyone can make a mistake at anything given the right circumstance.
No one in their right mind would pick Twin B to watch their child over Twin A. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or is a moron. As you can see your whole notion of "everyone makes mistakes" looks very silly when put into practical application.
Last edited by griffon652; 07-12-2019 at 07:53 AM..
I cant find the story I saw this morning but the picture in this article was attributed to the father of the girl reportedly taken "shortly after". Obviously its a bit later because of the police tape and such but its also dark. I thought I had heard it was like 5 pm. So I don't know what or when
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652
I don't understand this line of thinking. EVERYTHING related to the window is irrelevant. Why is everyone who is defending the grandfather ignoring the fact that the only reason this happened was because the grandfather did something no responsible adult who thinks of child safety first would ever do? This moron decided to put the child where he had no business putting her. He put her on a hand railing! He used a structure for a purpose that it was not built for and paid for it with this poor babies life. If we go by this type of crazy logic, people should be able to sue Toyota when they become paralyzed from an accident caused by them taking a Corolla "off roading." Or maybe I should sue the manufacturer of my house for a broken leg because I decided to purposely skip steps on my staircase when I came down the stairs. The level of denial of personal responsibility it takes to try to justify this type of behavior simply astounds me. I don't think the grandfather was criminally negligent. However, people like him who are this clueless regarding child safety have no business supervising kids.
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The next time you're at a zoo or an aquarium, notice how many parents do this with similar sized children.
I was reading this thread last night and my mind was so confused reading about the multiple mentions of this event compared to a hockey game. Now, this morning, it's not any clearer.
The little girl attended her brothers hockey games where she would bang on the glass partition. So that became her “thing”, she likes to bang on glass when she sees it.
This is a terrible tragedy, but to lay the blame on the cruise line is misdirected and a deflection of accountability of who is at fault in this situation. The grandfather made a fatal error in this instance, sadly.
Cruise ships are the last place that people should let their kids run around unsupervised or take risks such as perching them onto railings, bang on the glass, etc. Personally, I've seen a few close calls on the high seas; parents who let their kids peer and climb through ropes designated to keep them out of areas, such as pools that have been closed, etc., or an instance where an intellectually disabled kid was running full speed on the Lido deck, (parent absent or distracted), totally immersed in watching a plane that was flying above the ship, and was dangerously close to running into the aft guard rail. Had my DH not intervened, he would, in all likelihood, gone overboard and likely plunged to his death.
Given the unpredictability of the high seas themselves (waves, storms, etc.), the mass amount of amenities available, and the number of fellow passengers, this mode of travel necessitates the highest amount of alertness. The cruise lines explain the risks, codes of conduct, etc., in the information that is provided prior to the journey. That, coupled with some common sense, ensures a safe, enjoyable vacation for the vast majority of cruisers.
I sincerely hope that the family heals from this horrible accident.
Last edited by TheOldPuss; 07-12-2019 at 08:36 AM..
I'm very confused by the photo in post #248. There's a sign saying "open window" pointing to what looks to me like a pane of glass, i.e. a CLOSED window. The pane to the right of it appears to be open. If that window marked "open" is actually open, then I guess I couldn't have told it was open either.
I don't understand this line of thinking. EVERYTHING related to the window is irrelevant. Why is everyone who is defending the grandfather ignoring the fact that the only reason this happened was because the grandfather did something no responsible adult who thinks of child safety first would ever do? This moron decided to put the child where he had no business putting her. He put her on a hand railing! He used a structure for a purpose that it was not built for and paid for it with this poor babies life. If we go by this type of crazy logic, people should be able to sue Toyota when they become paralyzed from an accident caused by them taking a Corolla "off roading." Or maybe I should sue the manufacturer of my house for a broken leg because I decided to purposely skip steps on my staircase when I came down the stairs. The level of denial of personal responsibility it takes to try to justify this type of behavior simply astounds me. I don't think the grandfather was criminally negligent. However, people like him who are this clueless regarding child safety have no business supervising kids.
You know I bet you were really proud of yourself when you came up with this little witty remark. I don't think you realize that sometimes what sounds great inside your head sounds ridiculous to the majority of society. This whole notion of "everyone makes mistakes" that your trying so hard to push is not applicable to lapses in judgement related to child rearing that can cause death. I was going to write a detailed post on how silly it is to take this stance but I have a better idea. Let me give you a scenario:
Imagine a couple is trying to decide on a babysitter to watch their 1 year old child for 3 days. They have narrowed the candidates down to two twins. Meaning they are both identical in terms of their physical capacity to care for the child. They just have one difference. They differ in their opinion of this particular story about the grandfather who dropped his granddaughter from the window:
Twin A believes: Your not allowed to make certain mistakes when it comes to caring for a child.
Twin B believes: No one is perfect, anyone can make a mistake at anything given the right circumstance.
No one in their right mind would pick Twin B to watch their child over Twin A. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or is a moron. As you can see your whole notion of "everyone makes mistakes" looks very silly when put into practical application.
I don’t think we are “defending” the granddad as much as saying he wasn’t doing anything g different than millions of other grandparents do, indulging a little girl he loved and he made a mistake in judgement resulting in tragedy. I don’t think it’s that out of the norm what he did.
It’s like when you reach around for something while you’re driving, most have done it many times without incident. So you think nothing will happen. The one time in 1000 it results in an accident of course you’re responsible but it doesn’t make you stupid or incompetent. This man doesn’t need to be defended to me, he is human and made a very human error in judgement that he will suffer for the rest of his life.
I just watched a story where they showed footage filmed from inside the ship by her father "shortly after it happened" and the exterior of the ship. Its nighttime. Was it dark when she fell? If so, that would certainly explain his inability to tell which window was open since a little better
No, it wouldn't explain it, because the lights in that observation area would probably still be on, and they would reflect in the glass.
I don't understand this line of thinking. EVERYTHING related to the window is irrelevant. Why is everyone who is defending the grandfather ignoring the fact that the only reason this happened was because the grandfather did something no responsible adult who thinks of child safety first would ever do? This moron decided to put the child where he had no business putting her. He put her on a hand railing! He used a structure for a purpose that it was not built for and paid for it with this poor babies life. If we go by this type of crazy logic, people should be able to sue Toyota when they become paralyzed from an accident caused by them taking a Corolla "off roading." Or maybe I should sue the manufacturer of my house for a broken leg because I decided to purposely skip steps on my staircase when I came down the stairs. The level of denial of personal responsibility it takes to try to justify this type of behavior simply astounds me. I don't think the grandfather is criminally negligent. However, people like him who are this clueless regarding child safety have no business supervising kids.
You know I bet you were really proud of yourself when you came up with this little witty remark. I don't think you realize that sometimes what sounds great inside your head sounds ridiculous to the majority of society. This whole notion of "everyone makes mistakes" that your trying so hard to push is not applicable to lapses in judgement related to child rearing that can cause death. I was going to write a detailed post on how silly it is to take this stance but I have a better idea. Let me give you a scenario:
Imagine a couple is trying to decide on a babysitter to watch their 1 year old child for 3 days. They have narrowed the candidates down to two twins. Meaning they are both identical in terms of their physical capacity to care for the child. They just have one difference. They differ in their opinion of this particular story about the grandfather who dropped his granddaughter from the window:
Twin A believes: Your not allowed to make certain mistakes when it comes to caring for a child.
Twin B believes: No one is perfect, anyone can make a mistake at anything given the right circumstance.
No one in their right mind would pick Twin B to watch their child over Twin A. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or is a moron. As you can see your whole notion of "everyone makes mistakes" looks very silly when put into practical application.
It's not only about the hand railing. A couple of our posters pointed out, that only one window was open. And grandpa chose that window, out of all of them. He didn't need an open window to show the child the view of the city. It''s highly doubtful that the accident was due to his not noticing the window was open. For one thing, fresh air probably would have been wafting through it, in which case even a blind man would know it was open.
For unknown reasons, he chose that window. We'll never know why, because the poor man will be an emotional mess over it for the rest of his life, unable to speak of it, plus the lawyer undoubtedly has advised him not to make any statements outside the small family circle and the law office.
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