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THE most stupid thing that the ship-builder's did was put windows that open, ESPECIALLY in a children's play area.
The grandfather had no idea that window was open when he put her up on the railing. She wanted to look out and hit the glass like she did at hockey games. He did NOT hold her outside the window. I just can't imagine how that poor grandfather will be able to go on living after having this happen.
This was all a terrible accident. I think the cruise lines will be sued to the hilt for that open window.
How many times have you cruised? I have seen open windows on the pool deck on about every cruise I have been on. On the floor above all they have is a railing no windows. The windows on that deck are so people can sit there if it rains, the windows at adult chest height slide across so that not only can you take a nice photo without window spots but you can get a cross breeze because over the pool is open. This is the pool deck, it is open whether rails or windows. This was NOT a children's play area, it was near the children's pool but the pool was a good distance. A child could not go through that open window unless an adult put them up on the sill. You do not put anyone up on a sill. It is not meant to stand on. Yes, it was a terrible accident, but it isn't the design of the ships fault. The window is not a place to put your child much like the top step of a ladder is not the place to stand. Unfortunately when people go on vacation they disengage the brain. I do feel for the family because it wasn't intentional, it was a terrible mistake but the cruise line is not at fault. They probably will come to some sort of settlement as they always do.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himain
If you cannot differentiate between an open and closed window then you are an idiot and should be removed off this planet. The family is looking to blame everyone but the grandfather who totally F-ed up. It's no body else's fault but his own.
Anyone who has been on a cruise ship (or any boat) would know that there is no way not to notice when a window is open. Cruise ship windows are cloudy from sea spray. You would probably also feel a good breeze on the 11th deck. The railing is very close to the window.
The grandfather made a horrible lapse in judgement that resulted in the death of the child. The cruise line is not at fault.
If the cruise line is held responsible, then they should no longer allow children in the pool area. Or on deck. Or in a balcony cabin. Or really any where they could be hoisted up and then fall overboard.
I feel really bad for the family. But common sense should prevail.
EDIT to add: It is possible she was walking on the railing, banging on the glass with one hand while holding her grandfather's hand. She came upon an open window and went to bang on it and momentum took over. G Pa wan't paying attention so he was unable to counter the momentum.
From what I understand, the ship hadn't set sail yet. There may not have been a breeze in port, and the whole ship including windows may have just been cleaned for the arrival of passengers.
I wonder what she was standing on. Neither the railing nor the window sill was secure footing. Even if the window had been shut, it wouldn't have been a safe place for a baby to be standing. You would need to be holding on to her every second. Especially if, as all the reports insinuate, you're expecting that she might lunge forward to bang on the glass. If someone can make a case that the cruise ship should not have had any open windows, someone else can make an equally valid case that Grandpa was negligent for setting a toddler up on a narrow, 3-foot-high ledge and letting go, whether the window was closed or not.
Well obviously in hindsight he was. I hope he doesn't get charged with that though. I read he was holding her, but I'm sure he didn't have a tight grip on her because he wasn't expecting the sudden forward lunge out the window. Very few people would maintain their grasp with an unexpected motion like that.
I agree the cruise line is not responsible but we have to remember this ship was in dock with the family newly arrived. The windows may well have been closed for cleaning for the salt spray does build up. Deck 11 is open to the outdoors and there often isn't that much of a breeze in the tropics. The window are intended to be opened but with passengers still arriving only one was (according to both the family and the Port Authority).
We've only taken a few cruises, with the Freedom of the Seas the last ship. Many when they first arrive explore the ship, taking in what is designed to be a visually stimulating environment. The human brain only processes one input at a time (albeit very rapidly). In a "normal" setting, the grandfather (and now also the grandmother?) may well have processed the clues that this was not a closed window but in THAT setting at that time they missed it.
Likewise, I believe the little girl was 18 months old. That's a horrible age to manage away from home. They are mobile (and fast) but have minimal impulse control. Passengers were still arriving with the elevators used for those carrying their hand luggage and stairs the main way of moving between decks. They probably did not have a stroller (are they allowed on deck, not sure I've seen one or maybe there just aren't many of that age)? The little girl may well have been over-stimulated. In that setting, I can "get" someone plopping her on a railing up against closed windows to distract her with an activity she enjoyed. Without this accident, no one would have batted an eye.
What I find it hard to believe is that the grandfather (1) did something very stupid (placing a child on a narrow railing in front of an window known to be open, (2) THEN "slipped" while simply standing there (this apparently the cruise ship version) AND (3) simultaneously let go of the child. Sure maybe if he was drunk but no party is alleging alcohol was involved. That window wall is curved with the railing the farthest from the wall at the window height. There's a good chance that if the above happened the child simply would have fallen down to the floor not out the window. She probably was reaching towards the "window" with the grandfather not restraining her movement in that direction even though he continued to hold or balance her on the narrow rail.
This was a tragic accident that happened because a whole bunch of factors came together in just the wrong combination. I agree that the windows are not inherently "child-dangerous," not in the least. It's very sad.
The early stories have mostly been disgarded. He lifted her up and held her there because she wanted to bang on the glass like at her brother's hockey game , he didn't slip. She went forward to bang on it and kept going.
The early stories have mostly been disgarded. He lifted her up and held her there because she wanted to bang on the glass like at her brother's hockey game , he didn't slip. She went forward to bang on it and kept going.
Now that lawyers are involved the story keeps changing.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrviking
Now that lawyers are involved the story keeps changing.
The most updated version is certainly more believable than the original, I think you'd have to admit.
It makes perfect sense, and I've seen pics of this little girl banging the glass at the Hockey game.
I'm sure NO cruise line would like the public to realize a well-intentioned grandma and grandpa could accidentally facilitate their baby granddaughter falling to her death on a cruise ship.
I've always heard, no one falls off a cruise ship, it can't happen. You can be thrown off, or you can jump off. No one falls off.
I guess not so, and yes, Royal Caribbean will take steps to hide that information.
Now that lawyers are involved the story keeps changing.
I read they hired the lawyer as a spokesperson due to the misinformation they felt was being put out there. I think in the beginning there were too many people telling a variety of stories about what happened. None of the early stories were confirmed.
The most updated version is certainly more believable than the original, I think you'd have to admit.
It makes perfect sense, and I've seen pics of this little girl banging the glass at the Hockey game.
I'm sure NO cruise line would like the public to realize a well-intentioned grandma and grandpa could accidentally facilitate their baby granddaughter falling to her death on a cruise ship.
I've always heard, no one falls off a cruise ship, it can't happen. You can be thrown off, or you can jump off. No one falls off.
I guess not so, and yes, Royal Caribbean will take steps to hide that information.
Of course someone can fall off a cruise ship. To be accurate, one would say that "no one accidentally falls off a cruise ship." Something else must happen first, in order for someone to go overboard. They have to purposely climb on the railing, or get thrown over it, or intentionally jump from it . . . or be placed there by someone who simply wasn't thinking about the danger that this entailed.
Maybe cruise lines could enclose all exterior passenger decks in floor-to-ceiling, non-openable windows -- which, of course, passengers would not like. Or, at the least, they should post signs saying "Do not sit or climb on railings." (I would combine the image from the first sign with the text from the second sign.) But aside from that, I really don't see what they could do to prevent these sorts of things.
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