Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And sadly, the adults in this babies life completely failed her. At least 3 adults were there, and not one of them thought putting baby on the railing was a bad idea.
So you think he knew it was open but put her in front of it to bang on the glass anyway???? You do not know what that window looked like to them from the angle they were at. Obviously it looked like glass to the baby too since she gestured to get up and bang on it.
I don't know what I think, other than that it was an accident. I think it's possible he didn't realize it was open and went to let her bang on the glass. I also think it's possible that HE actually opened the window and now they're telling a different story - if this was the only open window as they've claimed, how did he manage to pick the only open window to go up to? Maybe he opened it to show the baby the view. Maybe he knew it was open and meant to hold tight onto her to let her look out or whatever but he lost his grip on her. I don't know. All possible.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
35,620 posts, read 17,953,728 times
Reputation: 50641
So here's what the video will show, IMHO.
Without the context of grandpa's thought process, it will certainly look like he picked her up and dropped her out the window.
That's what it would look like.
And that's probably why immediately that was the thought. He dropped her out the window.
It isn't until you know the context - he thought the window was closed. He thought he was giving her a little leeway forward to rest her hands against the window pane and brace herself.
But instead, basically, in the blink of an eye he let her go out that open window.
If any other other adults were watching, they must have been as completely shocked as he was. While they may have thought, Grandpa, that's risky come away from the window, it didn't occur to them he didn't see the window was open.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 19 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,085,392 times
Reputation: 15538
All these post about window tint, safety rail, there was a breeze there wasn't a breeze the child is dead because an adult raised the child up so they could "beat on the glass". This isn't a hockey arena and that's not Plexiglas how about saying NO you shouldn't do that?
A child died because the adults didn't do their job not because of ship design, the adults will have to live with that..
I expected it to look A LOT more obvious. With all that blue sky and blue water and blue tinted window one area that is a slightly lighter shade of blue may not be readily apparent (especially close up). It isn't like every closed window is blue and behind the open window you see a shockingly different colored brown mountain and bright green trees and grass, everything is blue.
I am not condoning what happened, but if you were there in person even areas of shadows cause by cloud or brighter rays of sunshine may have effected what you saw. Seeing that photograph, with the blue sky and blue water, makes me even more sure that it was just a tragic, stupid accident.
That's pretty observant. The ships anchor perpendicular to land along piers so the backdrop not to mention the lighting that day is unknown. But clearly the actual background does make a difference. In the photo, the sea simply has a different tint of blue to it between open/closed; the lighter sky could (for only one window) easily be a cloud bank; it's not possible from that picture to measure the greens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
That was a very early story that was not confirmed. In the very beginning there were multiple versions of what happened.
One of the many disturbing aspects is that the SJ Port Authority released an early version of this tragedy that led social media to the conclusion the grandfather was dangling the child. No one on this thread - since I've started reading - appears to now believe that. Presumably the spokesman was working with some information from the ship although Royal Caribbean is now declining to comment. The cruise line is not responsible for the accident but I would hold them responsible for some RC official perhaps trying to get ahead of the story causing even more anguish to this family. That is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00
And sadly, the adults in this babies life completely failed her. At least 3 adults were there, and not one of them thought putting baby on the railing was a bad idea.
So maybe in the scenario - as they perceived it - it wasn't that bad an idea. Here you have this 18-month old who may well be squirming to get down. The sad irony is that a loving grandfather may have been trying to keep her from running wild in a setting where other adults are walking around distracted. In trying to keep her safe - and be responsible - he inadvertently caused a tragedy. That's very sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
I don't know what I think, other than that it was an accident. I think it's possible he didn't realize it was open and went to let her bang on the glass. I also think it's possible that HE actually opened the window and now they're telling a different story - if this was the only open window as they've claimed, how did he manage to pick the only open window to go up to? Maybe he opened it to show the baby the view. Maybe he knew it was open and meant to hold tight onto her to let her look out or whatever but he lost his grip on her. I don't know. All possible.
Babies aren't interested in views; adults are. The brain can take in various stimuli but not necessarily process them to the correct conclusion. The grandfather may well have been drawn to the "cleanest" window to look through as he stood there while she banged away. While there may not have been enough of a breeze on a docked ship in the tropics to clue him to the correct scene that portion of the "wall" may have felt cooler.
In about any scenario, this was an unlikely accident that to my knowledge has never before happened on a cruise ship.
It appears from the videos shared that the windows slide open, so I'm not sure the reporting that she leaned against it and it opened is accurate. They don't open out, she would have had to slide it. I've also seen it reported directly from the lawyer that this was the only open window of the whole bunch and grandpa didn't realize it was open. So it seems, at least from their current version of the story, the window was already open.
From reading a bit on other sites about the ship and people who know the ship, it being reported as a "children's play area" is misleading. It's an open pool area that is kid friendly and this window and railing area seems to be behind rows of tables and chairs or lounge chairs, at least in some spots. The windows that open are about waist to chest high for adults, the railing is nearly that high as well. There are three rows of windows and only the middle row opens. It isn't like windows that are toddler or even kid height open. It would only be potentially dangerous if someone did exactly what this grandpa did - lifted the kid to place him or her on the railing.
Like I said, this ship has been in service for nearly 15 years and as far as we know, this is the first accident of its kind. It is not as dangerous as the lawyer or even news, it seems, are making it seem. This was a lapse in judgment by grandpa that ended in a tragic death. It was an accident.
I just read a Guardian article where the family is reported to have asked why windows that are "normally secured closed" or something were open. But the windows are meant to open and from videos and other images taken of the ship at different times, every other window is open at that area. This family is just looking to blame someone else because blaming their dad/FIL/the grandpa is too painful, imo.
I agree, plus it’s a cruise ship with thousands of areas open everywhere. Anyone can jump over a railing anytime to their death if they’ve a mind to. This child was lifted up to an area that on her own she wouldn’t have been able to reach. That area is like a breezeway porch so of course there’s going to be windows open.
How many signs and warnings do we need as a society? There’s no common sense anymore. The cruise line shouldn’t need a sign addressing the railings or windows or anything. What should the sign say? Uhh, don’t put any people on the railings or lean against windows as they may open up unless they’re already open and you are too dumb to notice it. Also be advised as the entire ship has railings and decks and tons of other windows so please stay away from all railings and windows and decks, oh on second thought, please stay off our ship and go home and hide. Ridiculous! Grandpa was an idiot and accidentally killed his granddaughter. Tragic but it’s all on him.
It doesn't even matter if the grandfather could tell if any windows were open or if all of the windows were open. The point is, that the child could not have fallen OUT of that window unless the grandfather inappropriately placed the child in harm's way by placing her on the HAND rail. A HAND rail is not there for little kids to stand on and walk along. The child could have just as easily died from misstepping on the handrail and falling to the floor and fatally hitting her head. The danger came not from an open window, but from being placed on the HAND rail to begin with.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've also seen it reported directly from the lawyer that this was the only open window of the whole bunch and grandpa didn't realize it was open. So it seems, at least from their current version of the story, the window was already open. 