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Old 08-01-2019, 04:45 PM
 
9,576 posts, read 7,338,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Did you see the recent movie Free Solo, which documented Alex Honnold's successful attempt to free solo El Capitan? It's a very educational contrast to Chris McCandless's Alaska adventure. Alex Honnold planned that climb down to the inch, and he practiced the route over and over and over while roped with a climbing partner, until he had each tricky section truly mastered. And when he made the first attempt, he aborted the climb very early because something just didn't feel right to him. Short of not making the free solo attempt at all, he did everything it was possible to do to weigh the odds in favor of success.

What he didn't do was decide to just take off one morning and free solo El Cap because he'd has some experiences with minor bouldering problems, and hey, how hard could it be, really? That would be the free solo version of McCandless's "live entirely off the land in wild Alaska" trip - and I'm sure it would have ended just as tragically.
Of course I did, I love documentaries. While I agree with what you said, I still think people can have little to no fear of death and be overprepared (Alex) or underprepared (Chris), if you know what I mean. And even though Alex was thoroughly prepared down to the inch trying to minimizing his risk of death, he still could have died, right? Just look at how many base jumpers or wing suit flyers die each year, and these people are some of the best of the best and still die, I believe they are not suicidal, they just have no or little fear of death in what they do.
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,990,783 times
Reputation: 27773
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka View Post
For those who are dissing Krakauer for writing the book I feel I should point out that he was working for Outside magazine and was assigned the story. He became so fascinated by the story and by Chris that he kept going and researching and trying to figure out what was in his head. I have no problem with it....
The only problem I have with it is very minor: I think Krakauer is so sympathetic to McCandless, seeing him in some ways as a younger version of himself, that he implies too much that his own dangerous youthful climbing exploits succeeded only because he was lucky. On the contrary! Krakauer had started training as a mountaineer as a child; he had real climbing skills when he went to climb those very technical peaks. It wasn't just mere good luck that kept him alive out there (although bad luck certainly could have cost him his life - but when is that not true? You can die from slipping in the shower, if you are unlucky.).

He inadvertently hides the fact that Chris McCandless was nowhere as ready for his Alaska adventure as he had been at the same age. It's unintentional, I am sure, but I do see it as a minor flaw in the book. Maybe the overly-romantic and under-prepared would be less infatuated with McCandless's story if Krakauer had been a bit more forthright on just how much McCandless had been counting on pure luck (as opposed to real skill) when he ventured out there?
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,990,783 times
Reputation: 27773
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
Of course I did, I love documentaries. While I agree with what you said, I still think people can have little to no fear of death and be overprepared (Alex) or underprepared (Chris), if you know what I mean. And even though Alex was thoroughly prepared down to the inch trying to minimizing his risk of death, he still could have died, right? Just look at how many base jumpers or wing suit flyers die each year, and these people are some of the best of the best and still die, I believe they are not suicidal, they just have no or little fear of death in what they do.
Absolutely. Alex Honnfeld probably has an amygdala (the part of the brain that generates fear) the size of a matchhead. No one with a normal fear response would ever free solo! But while he may not "get" death emotionally the way most of us do, he certainly 'gets" it intellectually, and does all he can to avoid it short of just never climbing without aids. If Chris had been wired like Alex, he would have done the research and practiced the skills needed to insure that only true bad luck would kill him out there. But he wasn't, and thus he died of starvation. As I said in an earlier post, starvation's no accident. He just seriously over-estimated how easy it is to get all your calories from hunting and foraging, and he ended up not being up to the task.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,561 posts, read 7,763,547 times
Reputation: 16058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
The only problem I have with it is very minor: I think Krakauer is so sympathetic to McCandless, seeing him in some ways as a younger version of himself, that he implies too much that his own dangerous youthful climbing exploits succeeded only because he was lucky. On the contrary! Krakauer had started training as a mountaineer as a child; he had real climbing skills when he went to climb those very technical peaks. It wasn't just mere good luck that kept him alive out there (although bad luck certainly could have cost him his life - but when is that not true? You can die from slipping in the shower, if you are unlucky.).

He inadvertently hides the fact that Chris McCandless was nowhere as ready for his Alaska adventure as he had been at the same age. It's unintentional, I am sure, but I do see it as a minor flaw in the book. Maybe the overly-romantic and under-prepared would be less infatuated with McCandless's story if Krakauer had been a bit more forthright on just how much McCandless had been counting on pure luck (as opposed to real skill) when he ventured out there?

Krakauer was about the same age and had never been to Alaska, just like McCandless.

IMO, he was also poorly prepared. No familiarity with traversing glaciers, in this case necessary to access the peak, and in general soloing an unfamiliar mountain in unfamiliar country isn't advisable.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Outside US
3,695 posts, read 2,414,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
A 24-year-old woman from Belarus died on Alaska's Stampede Trail while attempting to visit an abandoned bus made famous by the book and film "Into the Wild."

Veramika Maikamava and her husband Piotr Markielau wanted to reach Fairbanks Bus 142, where "Into the Wild" subject Christopher McCandless died in 1992, Alaska State Trooper spokesperson Ken Marsh told the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner.
Markielau called state troopers in Fairbanks on Thursday night to report that his wife had died, according to a news release from the Alaska State Troopers.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/27/us/wo..._medium=social

Any hiker worth their salt knows better then to cross a river when it’s up and moving fast.
Quote:
The newlywed couple attempted to cross the Teklanika River, which was running high and fast due to recent rains, when Maikamava was swept under the water, the agency said. Markielau told state troopers that by the time he was able to pull his wife out of the water about 75 to 100 feet downstream, she was already dead.
Yes, very foolish move on her part.

It's sounds a bit odd.

The river is running "high and fast." She was swept under the water but he was able to pull her out of the water 75 to 100 down stream?

I read "Into the Wild" in the 90s. Very interesting story.

It seems people are using bus 142 as a "tourist" draw they want to see.

People have to have experience and be completely prepared to go that deep into nature.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,277,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
But that's my point - he WASN'T "that far out." He was very close to civilization, and when he decided at the end of July that he was finished out there and wanted to get back to that civilization, he could have done so, if only he'd consulted a map. Sure, he could have met with a true accident along the way, but true accidents can kill any of us wherever we are. A true accident wasn't what killed him, though. His issue was simply extremely poor planning. There were at least two other routes he could have taken to avoid the dangerous ford crossing (the cable crossing, and the road leading into Denali National Park) but because he didn't look at a map he apparently didn't know about either of them.

People who go out knowing what they are facing and who die in true accidents aren't an issue. The problem is that McCandless clearly didn't fall into that category, and that stupid bus has since become a magnet to too many naive people just as unprepared for what they are facing in their "adventure" as he was.
30 miles outside of Omaha isnt that far out. 30 miles off road in Alaska can be further than the moon.

You say he wasn't that far out, but the thread is about a hiker dying on the way to the place he died.

Distance is only one aspect of being far out, thinking it's the only aspect is going to get you killed. That's probably one of the issues McCandless had.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,990,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
30 miles outside of Omaha isnt that far out. 30 miles off road in Alaska can be further than the moon.

You say he wasn't that far out, but the thread is about a hiker dying on the way to the place he died.

Distance is only one aspect of being far out, thinking it's the only aspect is going to get you killed. That's probably one of the issues McCandless had.
And yet 30 miles outside Omaha is where two dunderheads died a few years back, when they froze to death during a blizzard after their car ran out of gas. They had exactly the same problem as McCandless: they were totally unprepared for the conditions. They had a cell phone, and they called for help, but this incident happened before Omaha 911 could use the GPS from cell phone signals to pinpoint a caller's location. So the police searched for them, but the callers' description of where they were was far too vague to pinpoint their exact location, and by the time the callers were found the next day they had died of exposure. Frozen to death in a car not 20 minutes from a metropolitan area of nearly 500,000 people. They might as well have been on the moon, too. And all for want of a blizzard kit in their vehicle! (Who knew that the Great Plains get blizzards in the winter? Or that nighttime temperatures in Nebraska in January can reach -20 F or lower? Clearly it was news to these two boneheads.)

That woman died not because of the distance of the bus to the town, but because she took a big risk she had no business taking (and which, to his credit, McCandless himself avoided), and which she probably didn't even recognize. After all, there was a rope there, so surely it must be safe to cross if you hold onto the rope! She clearly didn't get that the rules change when you're outside of a city, and you've got to dial your risk-taking way, WAY back if you're going to be safe out there.

Fools gotta be foolish. Some of them can learn, but too many won't bother to. Clearly, though, the bus has become a fool magnet. Since its historic significance is minimal at best, it would be best if it was removed before its lure kills more unprepared people.

(SAR pulling unprepared people out of situations they should never have gotten themselves into in the first place is a growing problem down here in the lower 48, too. It's not just Alaska which is struggling with how to deal with the hordes of bumbling citidiots who have no idea of what they are doing out there.)
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,155 posts, read 12,965,617 times
Reputation: 33185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Personally, I found him to be delightful, what was written about him, and am sad that he was alone realizing he would die, and wrote a farewell note.

Why the hate? Did you know him?
Agreed. The judgmental comments from people typing from the comfort of their heated/cooled living rooms saddens me. I work in the Alaska wilderness, and I am more aware than most that people have to be far more prepared than they can even imagine to live out there, even a few days. I'm sure he believed he could handle it.
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:08 PM
 
17,587 posts, read 13,367,588 times
Reputation: 33035
Nominated for Darwin Award!
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: equator
11,054 posts, read 6,648,352 times
Reputation: 25581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
That's an interesting question, to which we will never know the answer. I suspect the whole experience out there had matured him considerably; it would have been an interesting book to read (as Aron Ralston's was).

Does anyone know if there are many people hiking out to see the slot canyon where Ralston lost his hand? I suspect not; somehow his survival story doesn't see to inspire the same level of romantic idiocy as McCandless's non-survival story has. Maybe the book and the movie conveyed too clearly just how harrowing the whole experience was? OTOH, Cheryl Strayed's book (and subsequent movie) about section-hiking the PTC has certainly inspired a lot of people, even though (like Ralston and unlike McCandless) she survived to write about it herself. It makes me wonder what the difference is between the books/movies which inspire the romantics and the books which don't.
Good point. We lived not far from "BlueJohn Canyon" where Ralston cut off his arm. But it is so remote and difficult to get to, we decided not to attempt it, even though we were avid hikers. Been in a few slot canyons that are similar. I don't think many attempt to find the canyon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluejohn_Canyon

Just finished Cheryl Strayed's book "Wild" after reading this thread. Brought back memories of traversing 1,200 miles of the Pacific Crest Trail. Yes, I guess her writing style and Oprah's selection for her book of the month, cemented her popularity, not to mention Reese Witherspoon's movie. I'm not sure whether her sexual and heroin exploits added or subtracted from the book...

Never know what's gonna grab the public's attention.
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