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Old 08-03-2019, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,272,923 times
Reputation: 6681

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
And yet 30 miles outside Omaha is where two dunderheads died a few years back, when they froze to death during a blizzard after their car ran out of gas. They had exactly the same problem as McCandless: they were totally unprepared for the conditions. They had a cell phone, and they called for help, but this incident happened before Omaha 911 could use the GPS from cell phone signals to pinpoint a caller's location. So the police searched for them, but the callers' description of where they were was far too vague to pinpoint their exact location, and by the time the callers were found the next day they had died of exposure. Frozen to death in a car not 20 minutes from a metropolitan area of nearly 500,000 people. They might as well have been on the moon, too. And all for want of a blizzard kit in their vehicle! (Who knew that the Great Plains get blizzards in the winter? Or that nighttime temperatures in Nebraska in January can reach -20 F or lower? Clearly it was news to these two boneheads.)

That woman died not because of the distance of the bus to the town, but because she took a big risk she had no business taking (and which, to his credit, McCandless himself avoided), and which she probably didn't even recognize. After all, there was a rope there, so surely it must be safe to cross if you hold onto the rope! She clearly didn't get that the rules change when you're outside of a city, and you've got to dial your risk-taking way, WAY back if you're going to be safe out there.

Fools gotta be foolish. Some of them can learn, but too many won't bother to. Clearly, though, the bus has become a fool magnet. Since its historic significance is minimal at best, it would be best if it was removed before its lure kills more unprepared people.

(SAR pulling unprepared people out of situations they should never have gotten themselves into in the first place is a growing problem down here in the lower 48, too. It's not just Alaska which is struggling with how to deal with the hordes of bumbling citidiots who have no idea of what they are doing out there.)
Sure, no argument from me, about the hoons in Nebraska the fact they had cell service means they were an order or two more fortunate than most people in that situation in AK. I used to have cell service from Hilltop outside of Fairbanks (on the Elliot/Dalton) heading in to Fairbanks, and lost it there heading out, and a 150 mile drive home 149 of them on a gravel road, the last mile off road, sometimes with 70 or 80 F temps and sun, sometimes with heavy smoke from summer wildfires (that often tripped the ECU emissions warnings), sometimes -40F and dark on the way in, and dark on the way back.

Agreed she was dumb, as was McCandless. As is anyone thinking distance and remoteness are anything but marginally related.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,956,211 times
Reputation: 33184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Sure, no argument from me, about the hoons in Nebraska the fact they had cell service means they were an order or two more fortunate than most people in that situation in AK. I used to have cell service from Hilltop outside of Fairbanks (on the Elliot/Dalton) heading in to Fairbanks, and lost it there heading out, and a 150 mile drive home 149 of them on a gravel road, the last mile off road, sometimes with 70 or 80 F temps and sun, sometimes with heavy smoke from summer wildfires (that often tripped the ECU emissions warnings), sometimes -40F and dark on the way in, and dark on the way back.

Agreed she was dumb, as was McCandless. As is anyone thinking distance and remoteness are anything but marginally related.
I'm not sure when you had cell service in Alaska but I get a great signal in even the remote villages with GCI. I don't know when they put the towers in but they spent billions of dollars doing it.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,529,645 times
Reputation: 11994
I found this article about people’s obsession with Chris McCandless story.

https://www.outsideonline.com/192062...ession-problem

Just maybe it will help shine some light as to why people still make the trek.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,352 posts, read 7,982,834 times
Reputation: 27758
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
I found this article about people’s obsession with Chris McCandless story.

https://www.outsideonline.com/192062...ession-problem

Just maybe it will help shine some light as to why people still make the trek.
Good article - thanks for the link. Running off to live in the wild is just the modern version of running away to join the circus. In both cases, the dreamer usually ends up disappointed. But at least the kids who ran off with the circus usually lived.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,529,645 times
Reputation: 11994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Good article - thanks for the link. Running off to live in the wild is just the modern version of running away to join the circus. In both cases, the dreamer usually ends up disappointed. But at least the kids who ran off with the circus usually lived.
My wife and I thought at some point about living off the grid at one point. And I’m 50 my wife has some health issues it all sounds fun and edgy until your 80 and having to cut your own firewood lol.
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Old 08-09-2019, 12:04 PM
 
3,852 posts, read 4,151,806 times
Reputation: 7867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
He had an over-idealized view of the natural world. Its what killed him and others like him. Nature is full of things that are out to kill you, and there’s a reason the Alaskan wilderness is so untouched - its particularly harsh and unforgiving. His death is in many ways an allegory for the whole 1st world nature lover mentality - that magical view doesnt put food in your mouth. Something easily forgotten when food has never been a problem in your life. The fact he grew up in Fairfax county doesnt surprise me at all. Its a very sheltered environment, ideal for producing kids with big dreams and little understanding of how harsh the world can be.
Ouch! I'm from Fairfax County and went to high school with Chris McCandless, though I didn't know him personally. Having lived there for about 35 years until I made my permanent escape, I have definite opinions about Fairfax County, but they don't intersect with yours at all.
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Old 08-09-2019, 02:17 PM
 
949 posts, read 572,323 times
Reputation: 1490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
You don't say.


Nature doesn't coddle fools gently. Or at all.
Right. Most would cringe at leaving their cell phone at home for the day.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:38 PM
 
859 posts, read 705,347 times
Reputation: 827
Recently, I watched the documentary about the story of this bus and I have a comment about it particularly. it seems that the main reason of such trips is not about the bus itself, but because it was related to a man who died inside the bus. The story in the documentary is beautiful actually. I mean there are beautiful things about it. I understand it completely differently.

The story is sad in the beginning, beautiful in the middle, sad & tragic at the end. So, the result overall is sad but it has lessons that should be taken and considered in a positive way. I'm surprised how people turned it to a tragedy by taking a risk over obvious things such as a rage fast river that cost them their life at the end; they seem take it as a challenge to the rage river in order to get to the bus without giving a value to their life. The story of this bus is different to what those people thought, did and understood in my opinion. I don't get the story in the same way.

What I'm writing here is my thinking or opinion according to what I understand of the documentary (I might be wrong in my analyzing):

The man originally since childhood lived at a home that has instability. Not completely, of course. On one hand, there were beautiful family moments include being out of home in the wilderness with his family that brought peace figure inside himself. But On the other hand, there was s a dark creepy side that happening behind the close doors, according to what stated. It must have been a difficult situation for children to live and witness what was stated. He seems suffered emotionally due to what he's going through at that home. Based on all what stated, he seems to me like someone who is being tortured internally, broken, while he's strong, independent, kind from outside. And even as a grown man, he still has this psychological injury. It's really sad and painful.

Yes it seems since childhood he loved wilderness, because he found fun, entertainment and peace in it but it's not stated that this was his dream originally or the way of life he's looking for, or he was thinking to go away from his home and to cut off all contacts with his parents, siblings including his close sister and the outside world overall.

So, based on what I understand from that documentary, I noticed that this thinking (to go far away with cutting off all contacts) STARTED from the time that he sent that letter to his parents expressing his feelings and what he had internally from what he's been through in his life because he felt he needed to do that, he wanted to get it out of his chest.

The reply of the message, or dealing with it was shocking, unwise and very disappointing. I guess it was devastating to him to the extent he wrote to his sister about it. Inside himself, he lost any hope for them or maybe just one of them to change or acknowledge any mistake was committed and affected on him with the other siblings. That response of the letter he'd received made him snapped in my opinion and silently decided to move faraway from that home memories and cut all of them off. I guess his parents or one of them was very bothered of that letter their son sent and instead of trying to containing him, be patient and more considerate, they or one of them replied in a hurting way.
In such condition, when they or one of them got upset over such letter's content and don't have anything to say other other than that reply, they shouldn't have been replied at all. Silence will be the best option.


The story basically didn't say " live the life you want to live" like what others understood of his story, regardless whether this term is right/wise or not, it's not the topic. At least, I don't understand it like that. Because the man originally didn't live or spent whole his life in wild to be taken like that nor he was thinking that way.

He studied, graduated, make money and got a car that he loved, all things seems fine but inside of himself, he wasn't in peace. He wasn't happy or satisfied. The materialistic looking that his parents cared of or might focus on more than emotions and feeling didn't bring him happiness. He even told his sister or sisters not to take money from them. That will explain why he disdained money at the end and burned it. It's not that he doesn't know the value of money but I think this was a MSG to say: money doesn't bring a happiness and internal peace to him.

When people thought that he's belonged to a happy & perfect family, from outside, who is a good financially. There are somethings not presented the actual reality that has some creepy scenes of the past and misunderstanding in his present. The letters they were talking about in the documentary that he kept sending to his close sister clarified this side. Regardless true or not, it was his feeling anyway.

Furthermore, according to me. It's obvious that the man didn't want to die, and it wasn't his purpose of doing his journey. He's brave and somewhat reckless. Also, in my view, it's obvious that he wasn't planning to stay at the wilderness for ever. It seems to me as if he was doing a project there, by discovering wilderness in order to do something later; what made me think of that is 4 things:

* Writing notes about every single movement/feeling in his journey.
* Taking 600 photos in the wilderness!!
* The last happy photo he had taken there while he wasn't in a good condition.
* The note or letter he wrote on the bus from outside saying he needs a HELP, he's hungry injured...etc.


Why would he do this? for whom?
I guess these writings and photos are in order to show others (family, friends, people, world...etc) later, because in his mind, one day, he's gonna get back to his hometown. He's not planning to live in the wideness or an isolated living for good; I don't think so.


In the last final moments of his life, while he wasn't in a good condition physically, he took a photo that presented him as happy. I think that's because he wanted to give a happy ending for his journey regardless of the fact of being ill and weak. Because he knew that whether he stayed alive or died. One day there is someone will come and find all these writings and photos inside the bus.

There are some several notes in his trip that he should have considered, some of them, I don't know why he didn't think or consider such as a map and ... (The tool used for selecting locations).

Another somewhat understandable action, when the people alerted him from going to Alaska, he chose to take a risk. I may understand this, because all this time he was living fine and on his own; when he left home and cut off all family members, he wasn't at Alaska originally, no body knows where, he didn't want anyone to know his identity, he was somewhere else, on his own, didn't have a car and didn't have much money to the extent that the man or people that he worked for (for) a specific period of time was surprised how could he live with very little amount of money which means life like that was too hard but he was satisfied anyway with the little he got and managed to pass all these obstacles. I guess that's what could make him has a high self-confidence so that he felt he's different, he's stronger, he think he could continue even if he has a real fear internally from going through such experience that has some risk.

The woman that he met in his journey commented about him having a "stupid book", (According to what stated if I'm not mistaken of the term), that he was reading all the time. The book was talking about the plants and fruits that are edible to eat in the wilderness. So, I conclude that he's not completely unprepared or not think about his life or living after that.

Also, when people (such as the guy & his wife in this news, for instance) tried to take a risk to cross the rage fast river to go to the bus, maybe thinking that they were inspired by the man's story and what had done.

The man in the story originally didn't do it. When he found out that the river is up and highly risk to cross, he TURNED BACK to the bus and stayed another 1 month. He didn't think to take a risk because he knew the consequence and didn't want to die from drowning. Why do all these people not take this fact into consideration? They took something of the story and left something. As if they understood what they wanted and left what they don't want it.

They achieved nothing actually!! and even not understand the purpose/idea of the man's story. They just take/ understand it in a negative way in my opinion, they get it as a way of challenging a rage fast river without considering safety and preparation.


In addition, there is something I just understood it now when I searched about the bus. When people cross the river, they cross it by walking, not by swimming as I thought. So, I wonder do all these people ORIGINALLY knew swimming or not? If they know swimming, it's still dangerous according to the description of the river, but taking a risk would be somewhat understandable. But if they don't know swimming, it would be worse!



I read the last link you provided about why people go to the bus and I understood it in general not completely (I mean stories). I have a comment about some of what stated since it's too long.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:44 PM
 
17,568 posts, read 13,339,567 times
Reputation: 33005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
30 miles outside of Omaha isnt that far out. 30 miles off road in Alaska can be further than the moon.

You say he wasn't that far out, but the thread is about a hiker dying on the way to the place he died.

Distance is only one aspect of being far out, thinking it's the only aspect is going to get you killed. That's probably one of the issues McCandless had.

Like I said, a candidate for the Darwin Award
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Old 08-11-2019, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
23,766 posts, read 29,045,903 times
Reputation: 37337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
Like I said, a candidate for the Darwin Award
turns out there is a Darwin Medal given by the Royal Society, but is only given to candidates of the Commonwealth of Nations and Ireland which especially seems unfair to the citizens of Florida and Wisconsin.

only given 60 times since 1890 and most recently to Peter Holland..."'for his work with many organisms and genes elucidating key aspects of how changes in the genome influence evolution of animal development"

bet he and his family were thrilled to receive the news

Messenger; "we are pleased to inform you that we have selected you to receive our Darwin Medal"

Mr. Holland; "wut?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Medal
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