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The point was in proving liability in a court of law, to a poster who wondered about that. Even with rising numbers in places that had protests, it would still be impossible to legally prove that any specific events were the sole cause of them. Not just with the protests, but any/all mass gatherings. Even with Trump rally and the no-sue waivers, I don't think the waivers mattered because I don't see how anyone could prove in a court of law that they got sick from the rally. They'd have to have never left the house or come in contact with anyone aside from that one event, and that seems unlikely. If you went to Walmart in the morning and the rally at night, how can you prove which is the place you got infected?
Walmart has preventative measures in place aimed specifically at reducing the spread of the disease....unless they were no longer following them. I don't know how the rallies did it.
What I do know is that a grocery store had gone quite well through the pandemic and kepts its doors open and their workers safe until a couple of weeks ago when looters broke in and arsonists attempted to burn the building down even as the company was struggling financially. Now the workers are getting sick, months into this thing, including my family member. Now not just them, but their families are all needing to isolate and who knows how many customers got it, but they can easily interact with hundreds each day. Most are paid hourly. These are not wealthy people. There may not be enough evidence to know who the ringleaders were and who took what, but where there's enough camera to get a positive facial ID, we know that they were avoiding sanitizing measure upon entering the building and this would have happened in addition to the actual crime taking place.
If you break into a place to rob a TV and accidentally kill someone in the process, it's Murder. I may not be the DA, and letting the DA flush out the facts first is more cost effective, but they are busy and under fire at the moment, and it's not like these precious gifts from God have any money anyway. Besides, civil court is not beyond a reasonable doubt. Rather, just prove that it was a pandemic and no reasonable precaution was taken to the workers and the surrounding community when the stores were looted.
But let's be honest, it's not even worth taking it that far. There's no point suing a worthless hunk of garbage because there's no money there. But...in civil court an attorney is not provided. Even just a responding initial letter would likely cost more than the goods looted out with two arms, and one might consider that expenditure itself to be a win of sorts.
Still, no real attorney would file on so many cases they never intended to pursue....but that doesn't mean a similar looking letterhead and new website couldn't be put up and for each one of these maggots that can be positively ID'd, they can get their notice of impending legal action. Hell, maybe turn it right over to the Ben Choads from the Delhi SSA office directly for follow up from there.
Or just publishing the camera still shot. These a-hats got a whole group of innocents sick in a bad way. Bleeding things attract unwanted attention....but bleeding wallets...not so much.
Walmart has preventative measures in place aimed specifically at reducing the spread of the disease....unless they were no longer following them. I don't know how the rallies did it.
What I do know is that a grocery store had gone quite well through the pandemic and kepts its doors open and their workers safe until a couple of weeks ago when looters broke in and arsonists attempted to burn the building down even as the company was struggling financially. Now the workers are getting sick, months into this thing, including my family member. Now not just them, but their families are all needing to isolate and who knows how many customers got it, but they can easily interact with hundreds each day. Most are paid hourly. These are not wealthy people. There may not be enough evidence to know who the ringleaders were and who took what, but where there's enough camera to get a positive facial ID, we know that they were avoiding sanitizing measure upon entering the building and this would have happened in addition to the actual crime taking place.
If you break into a place to rob a TV and accidentally kill someone in the process, it's Murder. I may not be the DA, and letting the DA flush out the facts first is more cost effective, but they are busy and under fire at the moment, and it's not like these precious gifts from God have any money anyway. Besides, civil court is not beyond a reasonable doubt. Rather, just prove that it was a pandemic and no reasonable precaution was taken to the workers and the surrounding community when the stores were looted.
But let's be honest, it's not even worth taking it that far. There's no point suing a worthless hunk of garbage because there's no money there. But...in civil court an attorney is not provided. Even just a responding initial letter would likely cost more than the goods looted out with two arms, and one might consider that expenditure itself to be a win of sorts.
Still, no real attorney would file on so many cases they never intended to pursue....but that doesn't mean a similar looking letterhead and new website couldn't be put up and for each one of these maggots that can be positively ID'd, they can get their notice of impending legal action. Hell, maybe turn it right over to the Ben Choads from the Delhi SSA office directly for follow up from there.
Or just publishing the camera still shot. These a-hats got a whole group of innocents sick in a bad way. Bleeding things attract unwanted attention....but bleeding wallets...not so much.
I really don’t wanna argue about protesters, it’s not the point of the posts. The point was mass gatherings not specifically protest. But in any case I do wanna point out because I feel it’s true that the looters were not the protesters but opportunists whether street criminals or outside agitators who used the protests as cover and
use the protests to their advantage.
First of all, someone would have to initiate a lawsuit before that could happen. The president made people sign no sue waivers at his rally. I would be willing to bet that they make it churches are also making people sign waivers. You can’t hold anyone responsible for either protests, no one sponsored them and they are constitutionally protected.
Just because someone signs a waiver does not protect that person from being sued. In fact signing a waiver indicates the person is aware that their activity is potentially dangerous and harmful yet they are doing it regardless.
I am not a lawyer but if you attend a rally that is shown to have spread the virus could individuals be held liable for that?
Well, June has been a hot month. First we had protesters clamoring at the State capitals to open things up. Then we have protests around the country for BLM and finally we have political rallies of all things. Now we've got the illness spiking again.
I'm curious if a court will later find that those sponsoring these mass gatherings during a pandemic and shutdown will be held liable for damages to everyone else in making this danger persist much longer. If we look at China or Europe, things are either pretty much nailed down or there's a real tapering off effect. Not so in the US.
I have been wondering if cities/states that did not put an end to the riots were going to be held civilly or even criminally liable.
It is one thing to try and let people back to work or start conducting a somewhat normal life again. But to allow the destruction of public/private business, works of art, all the while running around together in close proximity with each other seems insane.
If I lived in a place like Seattle I'd be looking to have the mayor impeached and filing a class action lawsuit with fellow business owners for her dereliction of duty.
I am actually surprised the governor is not under pressure to remove her.
As to how far such a suit would go, it is anyone's guess. I imagine it would be pretty hard to prove (if not impossible) where someone picked up the virus.
My parents are doing the same thing. Like you, they don't have a lot of time left, or the ability to do much, so losing one or two of their last good years hiding from COVID isn't worth it. How much would it suck if they didn't eat out, didn't leave the house, didn't travel to visit friends by car, didn't have any fun for the whole summer, and then broke a hip in the winter and COULDN'T enjoy their last couple of years? Or if they contracted the virus and died or were disabled anyway?
As for younger folks, well, we can enjoy ourselves surfing, riding bikes, hiking, and doing athletic outdoor activities that let you stay away from others without travelling, if we so desire. It's just a couple of months until everyone socializing gets infected and the virus dies down. Or--on the outside--a year or two to a vaccine, (or giving up on making one if it turns out to be impossible). That's time younger people can likely afford.
Otherwise, we can go out and spread it around, rolling the dice on not-so-bad odds. The main thing is to keep clear of the people who are at risk and don't want to be exposed. Wear a mask in the store and all that.
People are people and the US culture is the US culture. I knew it was a waste of time to lockdown in the first place. Not because the virus couldn't be contained. China clearly showed that it could, but it takes a culture with a sense of social responsibility. We don't have that in America. Never really did, probably never will. I knew the lockdown wouldn't work here like it did in China or Italy. No sense in bitching about it. People don't change.
The lock down worked just fine in Illinois and our infection rate is still at a 3. It's rare not to see people with a mask on in public places. I see you believe in herd immunity. Fauci " in states where you can see people congregating closely without using masks, that's a recipe for disaster. " Herd immunity is best achieved through a vaccine, not by some bone head out there partying up and taking it home or coming in contact with someone vulnerable, or another young outlier that dies from it, or needs a lung transplant like that young girl in Chicago. How about those kids that develop complications from the virus. Want to be responsible spreading it to one of them?
What are the experts telling us? Stay home, socially isolate, wear a mask in public, do not hang with big crowds. There is a reason why Florida closed it's beaches and bars, and other states are following suit. There is a reason New York came out of hell and is slowly and responsibly opening up. It's not so young people can roll the dice and hope for herd immunity.
Your perception of this disease and the reality of what we are dealing with are not on the same page, and you are part of the reason we are so far behind the 8 ball on this. Read more on how you can be part of the solution and do it! Prolonging this pandemic is in no ones best interest. We all have to work together because those at the top have fallen way short. It's up to all of us to fix this.
My parents are doing the same thing. Like you, they don't have a lot of time left, or the ability to do much, so losing one or two of their last good years hiding from COVID isn't worth it. How much would it suck if they didn't eat out, didn't leave the house, didn't travel to visit friends by car, didn't have any fun for the whole summer, and then broke a hip in the winter and COULDN'T enjoy their last couple of years? Or if they contracted the virus and died or were disabled anyway?
As for younger folks, well, we can enjoy ourselves surfing, riding bikes, hiking, and doing athletic outdoor activities that let you stay away from others without travelling, if we so desire. It's just a couple of months until everyone socializing gets infected and the virus dies down. Or--on the outside--a year or two to a vaccine, (or giving up on making one if it turns out to be impossible). That's time younger people can likely afford.
Otherwise, we can go out and spread it around, rolling the dice on not-so-bad odds. The main thing is to keep clear of the people who are at risk and don't want to be exposed. Wear a mask in the store and all that.
People are people and the US culture is the US culture. I knew it was a waste of time to lockdown in the first place. Not because the virus couldn't be contained. China clearly showed that it could, but it takes a culture with a sense of social responsibility. We don't have that in America. Never really did, probably never will. I knew the lockdown wouldn't work here like it did in China or Italy. No sense in bitching about it. People don't change.
You really need to read up on CURRENT news about this virus.
That message from March that "just old people will die and nothing will happen to the young" has changed recently.
No you may not need to go on a ventilator but you may end up with lung, heart or kidney damage that will be with you for the rest of your life.
You ain't gonna be surfing if you have to lug around an oxygen tank 24/7/365.
Well, June has been a hot month. First we had protesters clamoring at the State capitals to open things up. Then we have protests around the country for BLM and finally we have political rallies of all things. Now we've got the illness spiking again.
I'm curious if a court will later find that those sponsoring these mass gatherings during a pandemic and shutdown will be held liable for damages to everyone else in making this danger persist much longer. If we look at China or Europe, things are either pretty much nailed down or there's a real tapering off effect. Not so in the US.
Caused, no. Added to them certainly. Look at Los Angeles and Houston where law enforcement in charge of the crowds have come down with the virus in big numbers. And cases in those cities are way up.
The fact that the median age of those hospitalized is much lower than before also is a sign that the protests are translating into surge.
Just because someone signs a waiver does not protect that person from being sued. In fact signing a waiver indicates the person is aware that their activity is potentially dangerous and harmful yet they are doing it regardless.
I am not a lawyer but if you attend a rally that is shown to have spread the virus could individuals be held liable for that?
My point is it would be very very very difficult to prove legally that exact location and time that you got infected with the virus. If you were at a rally, but you were also at a birthday party at Walmart and at an outdoor bar, how do you prove that the rally is what gave you the infection? You’d have to have never left your house except to go to the rally, and that seems highly unlikely.
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