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A "harness," if you look it up in the dictionary, is a series of straps; this is a brace, regardless of what they call it in the articles.
Damn you are hard headed. You know there is more than one kind of harness, right?
Quote:
Defendants in the lawsuit, filed Monday in state court, include ICON Park; SlingShot, which owns and operates the Orlando FreeFall; the ride's manufacturer, Austria-based Funtime Handels; and the manufacturer of the seats and harnesses, Germany-based Gerstlauer Amusement Rides.
And the teenage attendant was actually operating the ride when this accident happened so by definition, he absolutely was the ride operator at that time.
Damn you are hard-headed...And the teenage attendant was actually operating the ride when this accident happened so by definition, he absolutely was the ride operator at that time.
Articles refer to BOTH the ride operator AND the attendant.
Articles refer to BOTH the ride operator AND the attendant.
So they can't be the same person!
I'M "hard-headed"?
Yes!
The teen attendant was pushing the buttons that operated the ride that day. When the attendant is performing as ride operator, they are in charge of making sure the riders fit safely and securely in their seats. That includes taking them off the ride if they don't.
Other riders had been in that same seat and didn't fall out, even with the harness adjustment. I think the attendant was too immature to be operating a ride like this. Even though it was an accident, he is partially responsible because he didn't do his job.
I'm also wondering what, if any, info the police are not releasing because after a month they still have a criminal investigation open.
That depends how the attendant was trained and what his training consisted of.
If the case being made is that he was supposed to KNOW that seat would kill the rider or was supposed to accurately GUESS the weight of the passenger, don't think that will hold up in court.
It's like trying to sue the cashier at the drive-thru window for the burger that gave you food poisoning.
It's not like that at all, because the operator's manual specifically states large people must be scrutinized in the seat at several points to make sure they fit properly, and if they don't, they can't ride. I copied and pasted the excerpt from the manual but it was many pages ago. So it comes down to his training and if he was the person who loosened the restraint. The ride attendants on the rides that told him he couldn't go on before he got to this ride didn't need to guess his weight to tell him he couldn't go on. But they might be owned by others who had better training, IDK.
I think not having the weight restrictions posted was a very big part of this accident though.
I don't think it should be optional. I can't imagine why any state would make that optional.
Regardless, if we are talking in terms of civil liability, a state has no legal responsibility to see that an amusement park or ride posts warning signs. If you want to create that kind of responsibility it one thing. It currently does not exist.
And the teenage attendant was actually operating the ride when this accident happened so by definition, he absolutely was the ride operator at that time.
Thanks for trying.
It's either a 3 point harness I believe but I could be wrong that it is a 5 point. It goes over the shoulders, plus has a part going over your legs to lock your hips in along with the middle "point" where it meets. All I'm seeing is comparison to kids car seats with a 3 point being the chest piece that comes down, the harness on the ride protects to keep the hips in a lot better than that does which is why a 5 point may be more correct.
Definition of harness states seat belt, I'm not finding anything using metal and or a bar.
Good point that the employee was operating the ride. He sure was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
It's not like that at all, because the operator's manual specifically states large people must be scrutinized in the seat at several points to make sure they fit properly, and if they don't, they can't ride. I copied and pasted the excerpt from the manual but it was many pages ago. So it comes down to his training and if he was the person who loosened the restraint. The ride attendants on the rides that told him he couldn't go on before he got to this ride didn't need to guess his weight to tell him he couldn't go on. But they might be owned by others who had better training, IDK.
I think not having the weight restrictions posted was a very big part of this accident though.
Thanks, I know that between you, me and some others, have posted more information about the ride, who owns what and everyone's role plus you posted about the manual which if the training is like Colorado, they had to sign a form that said they were trained with hands on with the ride plus the manual.
It is not called a brace, it is called a harness in every article I've read. I've also brought over the definition of harness. It was a 5 point harness when a regular sized person sat there.
Who cares, we all know what is being talked about.
Quote:
I don't understand why you are arguing that the ride employee has no fault when all of the other employees turned the kid away that day. Why is it that they knew he was too big but this employee did not?
I would imagine each ride has it's own size requirements, and different training requirements dictated by the different companies that manufacture the rides. I doubt it's a one size fits all. We have no idea what rides Tyre attempted before this one, or what those requirements were.
Quote:
I guess most of us will have to agree to disagree with you, and for me, no matter what you say, you are not changing my mind on who is at fault. Even the girl employee asked the male employee if he was checked. He said yes the light was green, so it was his job. All that verifies is that he checked a light, nothing more, nothing less
What was his job, what was his training, specifically? Making sure larger passengers were in the designated seats? Making sure the light was green before starting the ride? Was he supposed to eyeball passengers and guess whether or not they were dangerously over the weight limit? Did the attendant know the ride wasn't safe even if the light was green? Was he trained for situations where there is conflicting info?
So much finger pointing based on so little actual information.
Who cares, we all know what is being talked about.
I would imagine each ride has it's own size requirements, and different training requirements dictated by the different companies that manufacture the rides. I doubt it's a one size fits all. We have no idea what rides Tyre attempted before this one, or what those requirements were.
What was his job, what was his training, specifically? Making sure larger passengers were in the designated seats? Making sure the light was green before starting the ride? Was he supposed to eyeball passengers and guess whether or not they were dangerously over the weight limit? Did the attendant know the ride wasn't safe even if the light was green? Was he trained for situations where there is conflicting info?
So much finger pointing based on so little actual information.
Of course every ride has it's own requirements.
I'm repeating information that has come from articles which you should know if you're following what I'm saying so close to pick what I'm posting apart.
The employees were trained by the ride manufacturer. I quoted where that came from. I'm 57, in my experience an employer would not allow the employee to operate the ride if they did not know things like weight and size limits when customers lives were dependent on it. Go read that other drop ride thread where the 6 year old died, there is also the federal findings which said the employees signed their name that they were taught and understood the ride manual. That manual specified that the ride would not operate unless they over ride it if all of the seat belts were not fastened or something to that effect. The girl was not belted in. The belt was across her lap. They knew enough to keep pushing over ride to start the ride without checking seat belts. I would expect this similar drop ride would train similarly and if not then that's another story. I suggest you go back and read what's been posted.
This is the 3rd case of deaths in the last year on rides. Something needs to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
I don't think it should be optional. I can't imagine why any state would make that optional.
What I remember from the articles I posted was that Florida did not make the weight and height limits mandatory to have posted because they count on vacationers coming to these theme parks.
I forgot until now that there was another ride accident and death in July of last year but on a water ride where the whole family was over weight. The round boat they were in flipped over in a rapids pool, they were all belted in. They could not get one of their kids out, he drowned. Another who they just got out in time was in a coma for a long time.
Apparently their boat had been taken out of service that day because air bladder(s) were deflated which does happen, they're routinely checked. The parents said that as soon as they got into the boat it started taking on water that was not draining out. The boat also kept scraping against the bottom, which to me sounds like they weighed too much. According to articles below, one of the bladders for their boat was deflated. Someone else who was in line before the family claims to have had issues too. It does not say if they happened to have the same boat. I'm also not seeing a photo of the woman to see if she could be over weight.
I looked to see if there was a new report on the accident cause but am not seeing a final word. Just about everyone in this boat that flipped was over weight. It takes a lot to flip the boat because the bottom is made of 1,700lb metal. According to what I'm reading, the boat shouldn't have flipped due to one of the bladders being deflated. I'm not seeing their weight as a contributing factor, yet.
The park has been sold. The new owners are not sure that they will open the ride again. It may get taken out.
Soon after launch of the Adventureland Raging River raft carrying the Jaramillo family on July 3, it began taking on water, Sabrina Jaramillo told state investigators — and her family was terrified.
"It was going up to our ankles. It was filling up fast," said Jaramillo, mother of 11-year-old Michael Jaramillo, who died after the raft overturned at the Altoona amusement park. The accident also seriously injured Michael's brother David and their father, also named David.
Six members of the family — Michael, his parents, two brothers and an older cousin — boarded the ride about 7 p.m.
"It kept hitting the walls, and it kept hitting the bottom again, and it finally flipped,"
Amber Estrada, 31, said the boat carrying her and her husband, their three children and nephew at times struck and dragged along the bottom of the manmade river on the Raging River ride at Adventureland Park in Altoona on July 3.
The couple made the decision to lean forward in their seats with their children because they were worried it would tip over....
A state report dated July 4 said that the Jaramillos’ boat “immediately began taking on water as the ride began” and touched the bottom of the trough multiple times. Inspectors said they saw scrape marks on the trough’s concrete bottom and gouges in wooden poles along the ride from boat contact.
The boat eventually overturned during the ride’s final curve, according to the report, first reported by The Des Moines Register.
He noted that the Jaramillos’ boat was found after the accident with only one of its bladders deflated and an “exterior indentation in the outer rubber tube.” He said the boats, which weigh 1,700 pounds and have a heavy metal plate on the bottom for ballast, would not flip due to a single deflated bladder and it’s not clear when its deflation occurred.
“If you stay in your seat and the weight is evenly distributed regardless of whether a bladder is fully inflated, it’s very difficult to see how a 1,700-pound boat flips over,” he said. “That’s why it would appear there was some other factor at work on this day.”
This article has the victims parents talking about what happened that day
ALTOONA, Iowa — What was supposed to be a fun family vacation for their eldest son's birthday turned into a nightmare for David and Sabrina Jaramillo.
On Saturday, a tragic accident on Adventureland Park's Raging River ride left their 11-year-old son Michael dead and their 15-year-old son David in a medically induced coma.
With their niece and three sons, the couple climbed into the raft to start the ride.
"He released the lever to let our boat drop or move. And as we kept going— the thing was getting water inside. Some of the water wasn't coming out as fast as was going in," David said.
"It kind of went up in the air, almost kind of scary at first, like, whoa. But it came back down to the second one. It went up in the air. And it just continued— it went further, moreover— it flipped right over, and when it flipped over, all of us were trapped in the seats and seat belts," David said.
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The Operator of the ride would be the owner / administrator of the physical asset (Park owner or an agent that contracts ride services to the park... usually a 3rd party LLC, so park is not the responsible party in a liability lawsuit)
The Attendant, is the staff that is 'attending' / placing passengers, checking for safety controls, and pushing the GO button. (Employed by the Operator)
The Operator, would employ (or hire / contract) a maintenance staff to perform routine maint and check the physical safety switch settings periodically, as specified by the manufacturer (not between each run).
Someone in control of the maintenance staff decided on this ride to physically opened the limit switches out of manufacturer spec on (2) seats (Purposefully, or by error). This action resulted in the death of the 14yo who was over weight and over height of manf specs for riders.
The Attendant should have screened riders.
The Maint person should have caught the mal-adjusted limit switch.
The operator has oversight of the Maint and attendants (Or their managers).
'Who-knew-what' will be part of the 'discovery' of evidence in this mishap.
If the Attendant had been instructed to place 'oversize' riders in the (2) seats with expanded limit switches.... there will be a lot of culpability to spread around.
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