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You cannot compare a mechanic who is on the power side of an inelastic demand, and a line cook. The mechanic charges $100/hr., it is not negotiable! No one is concerned that s/he might not be able to pay their rent because of that. Come on.
To add to this, I would care if an employee couldn't afford rent. Humanitarian issues aside, the instability caused by not being able to fund the basics in life can cost employers a lot of money.
Exactly! You pay a price you're willing to pay for a service and the mechanic accepts a price they are willing to perform the service for. It's a business transaction not a social contract. You don't give a second's thought to whether the mechanic can pay his rent.
If I heard that many mechanics couldn't pay for their basic human needs because they aren't paid enough, you bet I would think about it. I wouldn't support garages that I knew didn't treat their team fairly.
If I heard that many mechanics couldn't pay for their basic human needs because they aren't paid enough, you bet I would think about it. I wouldn't support garages that I knew didn't treat their team fairly.
Well, newsflash: most mechanics can't pay for their basic human needs because they aren't paid enough.
They're not "paid enough." It's why the vast majority of them do work "on the side" as backyard mechanics.
Okay... And now you just dropped the damn ball hard: Colleges are not "PE accredited." What does that even mean?
University of Phoenix does NOT hold ABET accreditation.
No one thinks about PE license??? Are you serious? (Literally ANYONE who works in an engineering-related field will flag you as absolute bs based off of this alone lol) You NEED that to s&s any engineering-related document. You CANNOT have a registered engineering firm without a licensed PE on board. To obtain a PE license, you must hold a BS degree from an ABET-accredited school.
You can obtain a BS in Engineering Technology from several Community Colleges, a few of which are ABET accredited, which in turn allows you to become a licensed PE.
LOL @ you hiring "engineers" who don't hold PE licenses for $200k. And bragging about it. You've NEVER asked any of your supposed engineer hires whether or not they hold a PE license? So who is sealing the firm's work? You're hiring "engineers" who aren't licensed to be engineers? Congratulations.
You can’t submit engineering documents for permitting without them being sealed by a PE.
Next up, let's start hiring RNs who don't hold nursing licenses.
Lol @ "PE Accreditation..."
Literally every school in Florida that offers any kind of half-assed decent engineering program is in the list on your ABET.org. It's nothing special. As I said, I looked up all my schools and all of them are in there, and two of my degrees are ABET certified. This is literally nothing I've ever cared about. I work with Math PhDs, chemical engineers... people who come from MIT, Rensselaer, Stamford, Tulsa, etc... like... why would I even think or care about this stuff?
Your emphasis on this is so ridiculous, as if you're running around talking about a liberal arts degree and obsessing about it being regionally accredited.
We've veered off sooo hard from whatever the original topic is because this is so insanely important to you. My software engineering degree program is meets that ABET-accreditation, and I've never been asked about this, and no one has ever cared.
As I said from the very beginning... you're getting high on your horse. Being an engineer... or more specifically, having an engineering degree is not the amazing thing you think it is. It's a lot like the Toyota Camry, they're everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
Well, newsflash: most mechanics can't pay for their basic human needs because they aren't paid enough.
They're not "paid enough." It's why the vast majority of them do work "on the side" as backyard mechanics.
Newsflash, let's use some of your logic in your previous post. Most mechanics are not even actually mechanics. They aren't even ASE Certified. Most garages have like "one dude" who's ASE certified, and the rest of them kind of fall under that umbrella so the shop can say they're "ASE certified."
I took and passed the ASE brake certification years ago for fun, I even actually have the EPA 609 MVAC license so I could legally buy R12 Freon for classic cars... hahaha... you can add that to your ABET and other licenses. I also have a CISSP, and about 10 SANS certifications, and I also am an ordained minister for some Unitarian something or other. That last one was $5 bucks on the internet.
Dude... your professors lied to you. Everyone outside of keyboard warriors are not victims. People at McDonalds, mechanics, and anyone else you automatically assume are victims... are not the victims you think they are. I know you're young, you've made it obvious. Your life is going to really suck if you go into everything believing the world is against you.
Last edited by Atari2600; 04-01-2022 at 09:40 PM..
Literally every school in Florida that offers any kind of half-assed decent engineering program is in the list on your ABET.org. It's nothing special. As I said, I looked up all my schools and all of them are in there, and two of my degrees are ABET certified. This is literally nothing I've ever cared about. I work with Math PhDs, chemical engineers... people who come from MIT, Rensselaer, Stamford, Tulsa, etc... like... why would I even think or care about this stuff?
Your emphasis on this is so ridiculous, as if you're running around talking about a liberal arts degree and obsessing about it being regionally accredited.
We've veered off sooo hard from whatever the original topic is because this is so insanely important to you. My software engineering degree program is meets that ABET-accreditation, and I've never been asked about this, and no one has ever cared.
As I said from the very beginning... you're getting high on your horse. Being an engineer... or more specifically, having an engineering degree is not the amazing thing you think it is. It's a lot like the Toyota Camry, they're everywhere.
Dude... You've proven your entire posts to be BS with nonsensical terms such as "PE accreditation," and how you hire "engineers" for $200k without caring whether or not they hold PE licenses, and how NO ONE cares about PE licenses. Do you even know anything about engineering, and licensure? (Yeah yeah, go ahead and do a quick Google search now, after you've already embarrassed yourself.)
You also said University of Phoenix is ABET accredited lol...
Maybe on the internet you can live in your fantasyland of being some millionaire engineer that hires unlicensed "engineers" for $200+k. In the real world, this is not a thing. A PE license is a requirement to operate an engineering firm. And you need to have a degree from an ABET-accredited school for that. You said one can take all classes 100% online, for cheap, at all hours of the day, etc. I took classes at Purdue Global. Still was required to go live in person on campus to do the lab work.
You're lying. Plain and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
You're obviously a young guy, and still working towards that. Literally every college worth their salt is PE accredited. I hire people in the 180-250k range, and I've never asked them if they have a PE accreditation. Like, literally no one thinks of this, and I don't even know why we're talking about this.
Literally every college I've gone to is ABET accredited, and it's not something I've ever even thought about, or cared about. .
LMAO at the bold/underlined... You can't be serious... What in the WORLD is a "PE accreditation?"
As for the last sentence, for sure you didn't care, because you're not an engineer.
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Originally Posted by Atari2600
Even... whatever that one is... University of Phoenix that you see advertised on TV all the time, that's ABET certified too. So again, no idea why you're even discussing this...
No. No it is not.
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Originally Posted by Atari2600
No one considers you an "engineer" with an Associates degree, so I don't even know why you're talking about community colleges... you're the one that started going on about needing an engineering degree and then tying it to community colleges.
Correct. An actual engineer holds a PE license (PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER, REGISTERED THROUGH THE STATE.) You need a BS in engineering for that, and are required to take the FE exam, and THEN work under a licensed PE for [typical in most states] a MINIMUM OF FOUR YEARS to then take your PE exam and become a licensed PE. Yet, You said you've never encountered anyone that cares about PE licenses in the engineering world. Absolute written diarrhea.
Uh huh... State universities are typically certified across the board.
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Originally Posted by Atari2600
There's even one in West Florida.
Yep, I went to USF.
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Originally Posted by Atari2600
Next...
lol
By the way... You can't officially call yourself an "Engineer" without a PE license, which requires the steps I listed above to obtain.
But again, in your magical world, you are hiring so-called engineers without a care as to whether or not they hold a PE license. Yeah....
Last edited by Arcenal813; 04-01-2022 at 10:05 PM..
Its almost like they screw up things on purpose. And, of course, they expect a trophy just for showing up to work.
VERY bad example. In post #108 you show the quality of employees on a bell curve LOL. You imagine employers being frustrated at the waste of money on the nitwits at the minimum wage side of the curve and I immediately saw the irony of them not being outraged at the huge sums of money being spent to compensate the low performing corner office types.
The irony has come full circle because its exactly one of those expense account wastes of space that brought this thread to life. And what a ride it has been. Is there going to be Baseball this year? Not wanting to pay labor fairly exists at all levels of social economics. In Europe and the Scandinavian countries an entity like BMW cannot, no matter how much they might want to, they CANNOT brow beat workers into accepting wages that are not reflective of the success of the company they have built.
In Europe, a mechanic that works at BMW absolutely gets more money than a mechanic that works at the equivalent of Pep Boys. In America, we have normalized the concept of an absolute value of labor and the actual size and success of your place of work may not have any bearing on your actual compensation. That's why this thread. And we can see just how hard it will be to reverse this mindset.
And reverse it we must or the Republic will not survive. This is a high overhead part of the world and there has got to be more of the profits shared with the very people that make the profits possible. Or else.
LOL! Nice edit AFTER I called you out on your nonsense (luckily your original post with nonexistant terms and falsehoods remains quoted in my post.)
And still... even with the edits, it's still full of crazy talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
Literally every school in Florida that offers any kind of half-assed decent engineering program is in the list on your ABET.org. It's nothing special. As I said, I looked up all my schools and all of them are in there, and two of my degrees are ABET certified. This is literally nothing I've ever cared about. I work with Math PhDs, chemical engineers... people who come from MIT, Rensselaer, Stamford, Tulsa, etc... like... why would I even think or care about this stuff?
Alright let's go again: Because ONE NEEDS A PE LICENSE to sign and seal engineering documents. If you're supposedly hiring engineers, it doesn't matter that they hold PHDs in math or a Master's in Chemical Engineering if they don't hold the license. Literally every firm that hires engineers will ask about a PE license. Every single one, without exception. Do you think a hospital will hire an unlicensed RN to work as an RN? No. They need the license number, expiration dates, etc.
What's next? Hiring unlicensed attorneys because they went to Ivy League schools?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
We've veered off sooo hard from whatever the original topic is because this is so insanely important to you. My software engineering degree program is meets that ABET-accreditation, and I've never been asked about this, and no one has ever cared.
Yet you've clearly demonstrated time and time again that you have no clue why a PE license is important, even to the point of not caring about this when hiring your "engineers" for $200k.
I never said the firm will ask you about ABET accreditation. I said the firm will ask you about your PE license.
And yes, we've veered off topic, as a result of you making claims that every single class is offered at multiple times, including online, at night, etc., for cheap. Remember this gem of a post?:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
Every community college offers all their same classes at night as they do during the day. There are more universities offering night classes today than at any time in history. One thing that is also different, many of these classes being offered are now "Online" ... which means you don't have to drive / pay for gas, etc... and have more time not wasted on traveling. Plus, online classes are often cheaper than in-person classes. So I don't know what you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
As I said from the very beginning... you're getting high on your horse. Being an engineer... or more specifically, having an engineering degree is not the amazing thing you think it is. It's a lot like the Toyota Camry, they're everywhere.
Right. The degree in itself isn't anything particularly special... The PE license is. Well, to everyone but you apparently.
It also is not an easy thing to obtain, hence the importance of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
Newsflash, let's use some of your logic in your previous post. Most mechanics are not even actually mechanics. They aren't even ASE Certified. Most garages have like "one dude" who's ASE certified, and the rest of them kind of fall under that umbrella so the shop can say they're "ASE certified."
I'm pretty sure everyone knows this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
I took and passed the ASE brake certification years ago for fun, I even actually have the EPA 609 MVAC license so I could legally buy R12 Freon for classic cars... hahaha... you can add that to your ABET and other licenses. I also have a CISSP, and about 10 SANS certifications, and I also am an ordained minister for some Unitarian something or other. That last one was $5 bucks on the internet.
LOL... You sure love to brag on the internet, don't you? Who cares about this?
And... once again, ABET is not a license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari2600
Dude... your professors lied to you. Everyone outside of keyboard warriors are not victims. People at McDonalds, mechanics, and anyone else you automatically assume are victims... are not the victims you think they are. I know you're young, you've made it obvious. Your life is going to really suck if you go into everything believing the world is against you.
What in the world are you talking about? Where is this even coming from?
I was a mechanic for a solid 8 years while in college. I never considered myself to be a "victim." All I said here is that most mechanics are paid peanuts in a shop, and the real money usually stems from side work as a backyard mechanic, earned through reputation.
Last edited by Arcenal813; 04-02-2022 at 05:44 AM..
Trying not to send this into PoC territory but the restaurant part of the discussion and ‘where do the employees come from?’ also is now reminding me of a quote from Anthony Bourdain about how the Spanish is the language in the kitchen in a typical American restaurant.
Is part of the current problem fewer immigrant cooks than they were in 2019 or so? It’s a job that doesn’t require any particularly fluency in English as long as you can communicate menu items and would typically pay better than a lot of positions open to non-English speaking immigrants.
Exactly! You pay a price you're willing to pay for a service and the mechanic accepts a price they are willing to perform the service for. It's a business transaction not a social contract. You don't give a second's thought to whether the mechanic can pay his rent.
Except if everyone left the mechanic field because they weren’t making enough to make their rent, you’d be complaining there’s no one to fix your car. If he raised his prices you’d either pay them or not get your car fixed. That is what’s going on in the restaurant industry. And others. They are the ones complaining they can’t find workers.
Trying not to send this into PoC territory but the restaurant part of the discussion and ‘where do the employees come from?’ also is now reminding me of a quote from Anthony Bourdain about how the Spanish is the language in the kitchen in a typical American restaurant.
Is part of the current problem fewer immigrant cooks than they were in 2019 or so? It’s a job that doesn’t require any particularly fluency in English as long as you can communicate menu items and would typically pay better than a lot of positions open to non-English speaking immigrants.
It could be I suppose. But we never had Latin cooks in our kitchen (nursing home….all the Mexican people are in housekeeping) but we are very short of kitchen workers. We don’t have cooks at all some days, literally. Breakfast is supposed to come between 8 and 8:30 and it’ll be 9:30 and we go to get patients and discover they’re still waiting for breakfast because there’s no cook today.
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