Tear down central expressway? (Dallas, Vega: house, colleges, casino)

[Considering Coming Back]

Apparently most people cannot comprehend the article.

The premise is this: there is a piece of infrastructure (I-345) linking Central (US-75) and I-45. This piece of infrastructure is an elevated roadway on the edge of downtown. Money is going to have to be spent on this piece of infrastructure or it will be unusable.

The money could be spent repairing it, replacing it, burying it, or removing it. Those are the choices. There is not a question about removing Central Expressway; nor are there proposed changes to the Central/Woodall connection. Therefore the ability to make a connection from Central to I-35W or I-30 westbound is not affected (presumably Central is not a route of choice to I-30 eastbound because of the 3 ring-road alternatives).

The debate is: what is the value of the connection? How does it compare to the costs of the alternatives? What are the external costs lost or gained by each proposal?

I can understand people disagreeing with the premise of the article, but I cannot stand it when people say that an idea is without merit without comprehending the idea.

[ETex2]

Originally Posted by Komeht

It absolutely is a physical barrier. Ever see someone other than a homeless person walk under it? Ride a bike? Underpasses are built for cars - they're remarkably hostile environments for a pedestrian.

We can build cities for cars or we can build cities for people. I think the latter is better.

More of a mental barrier since there are tons of underpasses. You can walk it easily - but the homeless people are a fact of life downtown. To answer your question - sure I have. I had an office on Central for many years and was downtown almost every day. I grew up and Dallas and know it's history. Knowing the trends in real estate and development trends is my business and has been for 30 years.

You can't reinvent Dallas. Just like most other cities in Texas, it was built for cars. Uptown areas like West Village are somewhat of an exception. Deep Ellum started out as a mixed industrial and commercial neighborhood in the 1920's and transformed in the 1980's and 1990's. The West End was similar but both areas have floundered somewhat and Uptown has taken over as being the trendy place to live, shop, and dine.

I could go on, but I won't. I will say that I have worked as a consultant for various developers around the downtown area and also have worked on a number of TIF projects that have been instrumental in the revitalization of downtown. The city doesn't have the billions of dollars required to create the utopia you would prefer. But there have been great strides made downtown and in the arts district in the last 10-15 years. The new Clyde Warren park is now serving as a natural pedestrian link into Uptown. Lots of good things are happening. But private enterprise has to step in first. There just wasn't enough prolonged interest by developers and investors in Deep Ellum, and the wrong types of businesses went in.

[pepper131]

Originally Posted by Komeht

It absolutely is a physical barrier. Ever see someone other than a homeless person walk under it? Ride a bike? Underpasses are built for cars - they're remarkably hostile environments for a pedestrian.

We can build cities for cars or we can build cities for people. I think the latter is better.

When was the last time you were down there? While it's far from a paradise, the residents who live around that area have put in a nice community garden, the concrete murals are varied and many are quite good, plus the dog park....all under the overpass. Somebody down there is putting their feet to the ground and trying to improve where they live.

[ETex2]

Tearing down even that short stretch of "Central" would only serve the people of the immediate area. TxDot is concerned with the greater population masses that require highway access from points east and south, into Uptown, Oak Lawn, and other neighborhoods just north of downtown. You can't simply dump all the traffic into the side streets and expect it to work. Patrick Kennedy is looking out for only one small segment of the city - the local residents of downtown, Deep Ellum, and near East Dallas. There are probably 20 times as many people who would be adversely impacted if he gets his way.

It will be rebuilt - as usual with longer taller ramps and overpasses since TxDot seems to think this is the only way to do things. But for the next 5-7 years it will be a traffic nightmare and deathtrap for way too many commuters.

[Lakewooder]

I drive underneath and feel sorry for the people stuck up in that cluster _ _ _ _. However, it would be valuable to connect Deep Ellum/Expo Park/Bryan Place/Baylor Hospital to downtown. We can already see the benefits of that with The Klyde.

I'm hoping they will do a similar deck park as part of Project Pegasus to connect downtown and the Farmer's Market to Old City Park.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by ETex2

More of a mental barrier since there are tons of underpasses. You can walk it easily - but the homeless people are a fact of life downtown. To answer your question - sure I have. I had an office on Central for many years and was downtown almost every day. I grew up and Dallas and know it's history. Knowing the trends in real estate and development trends is my business and has been for 30 years.

You can't reinvent Dallas. Just like most other cities in Texas, it was built for cars. Uptown areas like West Village are somewhat of an exception. Deep Ellum started out as a mixed industrial and commercial neighborhood in the 1920's and transformed in the 1980's and 1990's. The West End was similar but both areas have floundered somewhat and Uptown has taken over as being the trendy place to live, shop, and dine.

I could go on, but I won't. I will say that I have worked as a consultant for various developers around the downtown area and also have worked on a number of TIF projects that have been instrumental in the revitalization of downtown. The city doesn't have the billions of dollars required to create the utopia you would prefer. But there have been great strides made downtown and in the arts district in the last 10-15 years. The new Clyde Warren park is now serving as a natural pedestrian link into Uptown. Lots of good things are happening. But private enterprise has to step in first. There just wasn't enough prolonged interest by developers and investors in Deep Ellum, and the wrong types of businesses went in.

Very very few people who aren't underclass walk under the overpass. If I saw a halfway decently dressed person walking there my first inclination would be to pull over and ask them if they need help. It would actually be embarrassing to be seen walking there. Theses are real tremendously powerful barriers to integration.

I also object to this characterization of the idea being "utopian". It is actually a very practical and time tested solution to a common problem, how do you created integrated and vibrant communities. You can build all the underpasses you want and dress them up with funky graffiti or murals, but the truth is as soon as that highway goes up, people stop walking there.

[PanTerra]

Originally Posted by Komeht

It absolutely is a physical barrier. Ever see someone other than a homeless person walk under it? Ride a bike? Underpasses are built for cars - they're remarkably hostile environments for a pedestrian.

We can build cities for cars or we can build cities for people. I think the latter is better.

We ride (bicycles) on Elm under US75 every Thursday night! That is a regular route and easily navigated. Never noticed any homeless on Elm.

RB332.mp4 video by pbrown8js | Photobucket

[Jetrun]

Tear it down, Dallas needs to stop catering to the suburbs and actually do something worthwhile for once.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Jetrun

Tear it down, Dallas needs to stop catering to the suburbs and actually do something worthwhile for once.

The problem is that three generations have grown up under the brain washing that traffic engineers know how to build cities - they do not. They are specialists at moving cars.

Everyone is asking the wrong question. The question SHOULD NOT be "what are you going to replace that capacity with?" The question SHOULD be "How do we build a better, more vibrant, more livable city?"

[DoneWithDallas]

This is dallas. Not NYC or Chicago. We don't have the foot traffic like these cities. You need a car in this city. So a. Physical barrier it's not